5 ms·

That is why we also track the labor force participation rate [0]. [0]: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CIVPART https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CIVPART

by mrep 7y ago

the_mitsuhiko 7y ago
Unfortunately I don't think that number is saying much either because it does not track well why people are not participating.
qeternity 7y ago
I can’t tell from your comment but I’m not sure this is what you expect. This is not people who have never had a job. This is a (now politically motivated) estimate of the number of employable people. Subtle difference.
- paulsutter 7y ago
  Participation rate is not politically motivated, but citing it can be. This was widely cited by the right during the Obama administration and now by the left during the Trump administration.
  - datashow 7y ago
    Is the left citing labor participation rate during the Trump administration? This is strange, because the labor participation rate is recovering since Trump elected.
    - wavefunction 7y ago
      >the left I will indulge you, though I doubt my points will perhaps provide any clarity to your understanding of the situation. Trump has undertaken many efforts that will force the impoverished and disabled into the McJobs creation that Trump is so proud of during his tenure. The Trump administration has cut benefits programs that our society's most vulnerable rely upon, like SNAP (Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program)[0][1] or Meals on Wheels[2] and reduced the number of people qualifying for disability benefits.[3] Trump's plans for 2020 and beyond look to go even farther[4] in targeting the elderly, the disabled and children. [0]https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/12/21/trump-food-stamps-cut-snap-benefits-more-hungry-americans/2710146001/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/12/21/trump-... [1]https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/12/04/trump-administration-tightens-work-requirements-snap-which-could-cut-hundreds-thousands-food-stamps/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/12/04/trump-adm... [2]https://www.forbes.com/sites/howardgleckman/2018/02/14/what-trumps-budget-would-mean-for-seniors/#34ce139f58cf https://www.forbes.com/sites/howardgleckman/2018/02/14/what-... [3]https://www.thenation.com/article/chained-cpi-poverty-score/ https://www.thenation.com/article/chained-cpi-poverty-score/ [4]https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/3/12/18260271/trump-medicaid-social-security-medicare-budget-cuts https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/3/12/18260271/t...
- datashow 7y ago
  I have never heard of the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics being politically motivated. This is a very new accusation. Do you have any reference?
  - dredmorbius 7y ago
    The notion that unemployment (or other economic) statistics are manipulated is neither novel nor confined to the US specifically. Whether it's generally accurate is another question. But a Google Scholar search will (along with numerous false hits) turn up multiple discussions: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C39&q=unemployment+statistics+%28manipulated%7Cmanipulation%7Cmanipulating%29&btnG= https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C39&q=une... I've chosen Scholar rather than a general Web (or literature) search as the frequency of this accusation online or in the general press is so common as to be a trope, though you can repeat my query in either. My own read is that unemployment is at best an incomplete metric for reasons expressed in the Brookings article: it fails to consider wages or compensation, and a large number of low-wage, low-skill, low-opportunity jobs really isn't commensurate with a strong labour sector.
    - wolf550e 7y ago
      There was that article I saw on HN where IIRC a doctor explained that disability diagnosis depends on the kind of work a person can get. If they are a blue collar worker and they can't stand for a whole shift, they get disability. If they can sit in front of a computer for 8 hours and work, they don't get disability, for same medical issue. People without college degrees get disability and stop seeking employment, making the economy worse off but making the employment statistics look better.

That is why we also track the labor force participation rate [0]. [0]: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CIVPART https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CIVPART

by mrep 7y ago

That is why we also track the labor force participation rate [0]. [0]: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CIVPART https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CIVPART

the_mitsuhiko 7y ago

Unfortunately I don't think that number is saying much either because it does not track well why people are not participating.

qeternity 7y ago

I can’t tell from your comment but I’m not sure this is what you expect. This is not people who have never had a job. This is a (now politically motivated) estimate of the number of employable people. Subtle difference.

paulsutter 7y ago
Participation rate is not politically motivated, but citing it can be. This was widely cited by the right during the Obama administration and now by the left during the Trump administration.
- datashow 7y ago
  Is the left citing labor participation rate during the Trump administration? This is strange, because the labor participation rate is recovering since Trump elected.
  - wavefunction 7y ago
    >the left I will indulge you, though I doubt my points will perhaps provide any clarity to your understanding of the situation. Trump has undertaken many efforts that will force the impoverished and disabled into the McJobs creation that Trump is so proud of during his tenure. The Trump administration has cut benefits programs that our society's most vulnerable rely upon, like SNAP (Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program)[0][1] or Meals on Wheels[2] and reduced the number of people qualifying for disability benefits.[3] Trump's plans for 2020 and beyond look to go even farther[4] in targeting the elderly, the disabled and children. [0]https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/12/21/trump-food-stamps-cut-snap-benefits-more-hungry-americans/2710146001/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/12/21/trump-... [1]https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/12/04/trump-administration-tightens-work-requirements-snap-which-could-cut-hundreds-thousands-food-stamps/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/12/04/trump-adm... [2]https://www.forbes.com/sites/howardgleckman/2018/02/14/what-trumps-budget-would-mean-for-seniors/#34ce139f58cf https://www.forbes.com/sites/howardgleckman/2018/02/14/what-... [3]https://www.thenation.com/article/chained-cpi-poverty-score/ https://www.thenation.com/article/chained-cpi-poverty-score/ [4]https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/3/12/18260271/trump-medicaid-social-security-medicare-budget-cuts https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/3/12/18260271/t...
datashow 7y ago
I have never heard of the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics being politically motivated. This is a very new accusation. Do you have any reference?
- dredmorbius 7y ago
  The notion that unemployment (or other economic) statistics are manipulated is neither novel nor confined to the US specifically. Whether it's generally accurate is another question. But a Google Scholar search will (along with numerous false hits) turn up multiple discussions: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C39&q=unemployment+statistics+%28manipulated%7Cmanipulation%7Cmanipulating%29&btnG= https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C39&q=une... I've chosen Scholar rather than a general Web (or literature) search as the frequency of this accusation online or in the general press is so common as to be a trope, though you can repeat my query in either. My own read is that unemployment is at best an incomplete metric for reasons expressed in the Brookings article: it fails to consider wages or compensation, and a large number of low-wage, low-skill, low-opportunity jobs really isn't commensurate with a strong labour sector.
  - wolf550e 7y ago
    There was that article I saw on HN where IIRC a doctor explained that disability diagnosis depends on the kind of work a person can get. If they are a blue collar worker and they can't stand for a whole shift, they get disability. If they can sit in front of a computer for 8 hours and work, they don't get disability, for same medical issue. People without college degrees get disability and stop seeking employment, making the economy worse off but making the employment statistics look better.