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If you live in a developed country, you can be quite confident that your plastic rubbish won’t reach the ocean on human time scales. It’s almost a non-issue, e

If you live in a developed country, you can be quite confident that your plastic rubbish won’t reach the ocean on human time scales. It’s almost a non-issue, especially considering the existential threat that is climate change. (The climate impact of plastic packaging is negligible)

iso947 7y ago
The climate impact of paper bags is higher - even with recycling That said, plastic bags do reach rivers in the west - far more than other plastic packaging. It might only be 1/10th of 1%, but that’s still a million bags a year clogging our rivers in the UK alone (at least until the number reduced)
- spodek 7y ago
  > The climate impact of paper bags is higher - even with recycling Plastic poisons wildlife and kills in other ways, so climate is a secondary, though significant, problem with plastic. In any case, the impact of using bags you already have -- that is, no new bags -- is far lower and practical. Thrift stores are overflowing with canvas bags companies give away that people haven't yet learned to stop accepting since they have so many. I'm still using a bag I got in the 90s and refusing new ones.
rockinghigh 7y ago
Even in landfills, plastics pollute water and soil via phthalates and Bisphenol A. https://www.unenvironment.org/news-and-stories/story/plastic-planet-how-tiny-plastic-particles-are-polluting-our-soil https://www.unenvironment.org/news-and-stories/story/plastic...
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- peteradio 7y ago
  I don't see anywhere in the linked article making your claim.
  - Wald76 7y ago
    It’s there: > Chemical effects are especially problematic at the decomposition stage. Additives such as phthalates and Bisphenol A (widely known as BPA) leach out of plastic particles. These additives are known for their hormonal effects and can disrupt the hormone system of vertebrates and invertebrates alike. In addition, nano-sized particles may cause inflammation, traverse cellular barriers, and even cross highly selective membranes such as the blood-brain barrier or the placenta. Within the cell, they can trigger changes in gene expression and biochemical reactions, among other things.
    - peteradio 7y ago
      "Even in landfills" per OPs claim. I don't see that claim being made in your selection there.
      - philliphaydon 7y ago
        Decomposition... would occur... in landfill...
        peteradio 7y ago
        Landfills... are lined... so.. they don't... leach... into... groundwater..
arnoooooo 7y ago
You're forgetting the incentives to externalize such things. Developed countries love to pass their trash on to others who will be far less scrupulous. For instance, it's been documented that most non final nuclear waste in France goes to sit in large open vats in eastern Europe. As far as the French nuclear industry is concerned, it's being "recycled".
spodek 7y ago
I live by the Hudson River and see plastic in it every time I go. That's not even trying to look for it. It's always there. I volunteer in beach clean-ups and there is always more trash than anyone can pick up. Plastic kills wildlife, disrupts our systems, and such. Mentioning climate is a red herring. Actually, it isn't since plastic production takes energy and its profits contribute to drilling fossil fuels.
notatoad 7y ago
yeah, i'm not sure how plastic waste has become such a hot issue recently, when the immediate threat is climate change and plastic waste is such a small contributor to climate change. plastic helps us reduce food waste, and food waste is a contributor to climate change. reducing plastic usage where it's unnecessary is obviously good, but plastic isn't inherently bad. sometimes it really is the best solution, even in single-use form.
KaiserPro 7y ago
> you can be quite confident that your plastic rubbish won’t reach the ocean Alas this appears to be false. Plastic is being exported to Thailand et al for "recycling", since china has stopped accepting lowgrade rubbish. This means that when they "process" it, can can endup being dumped in rivers, or blown by the wind. https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/uk-plastic-pollution-oceans-recycling-export-waste-malaysia-vietnam-thailand-a8400761.html https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/uk-plastic-polluti... Now, one can argue that plastic is a permanent store of carbon. The problem is that we continue to produce plastic, which releases loads of carbon. So unless we reduce, reuse, and as a last resort recycled, we are continue to have issues.
philliphaydon 7y ago
Even tho most developed countries ship it overseas?

iso947 7y ago

The climate impact of paper bags is higher - even with recycling That said, plastic bags do reach rivers in the west - far more than other plastic packaging. It might only be 1/10th of 1%, but that’s still a million bags a year clogging our rivers in the UK alone (at least until the number reduced)

spodek 7y ago
> The climate impact of paper bags is higher - even with recycling Plastic poisons wildlife and kills in other ways, so climate is a secondary, though significant, problem with plastic. In any case, the impact of using bags you already have -- that is, no new bags -- is far lower and practical. Thrift stores are overflowing with canvas bags companies give away that people haven't yet learned to stop accepting since they have so many. I'm still using a bag I got in the 90s and refusing new ones.

rockinghigh 7y ago

Even in landfills, plastics pollute water and soil via phthalates and Bisphenol A. https://www.unenvironment.org/news-and-stories/story/plastic-planet-how-tiny-plastic-particles-are-polluting-our-soil https://www.unenvironment.org/news-and-stories/story/plastic...

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
peteradio 7y ago
I don't see anywhere in the linked article making your claim.
- Wald76 7y ago
  It’s there: > Chemical effects are especially problematic at the decomposition stage. Additives such as phthalates and Bisphenol A (widely known as BPA) leach out of plastic particles. These additives are known for their hormonal effects and can disrupt the hormone system of vertebrates and invertebrates alike. In addition, nano-sized particles may cause inflammation, traverse cellular barriers, and even cross highly selective membranes such as the blood-brain barrier or the placenta. Within the cell, they can trigger changes in gene expression and biochemical reactions, among other things.
  - peteradio 7y ago
    "Even in landfills" per OPs claim. I don't see that claim being made in your selection there.
    - philliphaydon 7y ago
      Decomposition... would occur... in landfill...
      - peteradio 7y ago
        Landfills... are lined... so.. they don't... leach... into... groundwater..

arnoooooo 7y ago

You're forgetting the incentives to externalize such things. Developed countries love to pass their trash on to others who will be far less scrupulous. For instance, it's been documented that most non final nuclear waste in France goes to sit in large open vats in eastern Europe. As far as the French nuclear industry is concerned, it's being "recycled".

spodek 7y ago

I live by the Hudson River and see plastic in it every time I go. That's not even trying to look for it. It's always there. I volunteer in beach clean-ups and there is always more trash than anyone can pick up. Plastic kills wildlife, disrupts our systems, and such. Mentioning climate is a red herring. Actually, it isn't since plastic production takes energy and its profits contribute to drilling fossil fuels.

notatoad 7y ago

yeah, i'm not sure how plastic waste has become such a hot issue recently, when the immediate threat is climate change and plastic waste is such a small contributor to climate change. plastic helps us reduce food waste, and food waste is a contributor to climate change. reducing plastic usage where it's unnecessary is obviously good, but plastic isn't inherently bad. sometimes it really is the best solution, even in single-use form.

KaiserPro 7y ago

> you can be quite confident that your plastic rubbish won’t reach the ocean Alas this appears to be false. Plastic is being exported to Thailand et al for "recycling", since china has stopped accepting lowgrade rubbish. This means that when they "process" it, can can endup being dumped in rivers, or blown by the wind. https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/uk-plastic-pollution-oceans-recycling-export-waste-malaysia-vietnam-thailand-a8400761.html https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/uk-plastic-polluti... Now, one can argue that plastic is a permanent store of carbon. The problem is that we continue to produce plastic, which releases loads of carbon. So unless we reduce, reuse, and as a last resort recycled, we are continue to have issues.

philliphaydon 7y ago

Even tho most developed countries ship it overseas?