4 ms·

The U.S. has the single highest incarceration rate in the world. In that respect, we have the worst criminal justice system in the world. Other metrics matter,

The U.S. has the single highest incarceration rate in the world. In that respect, we have the worst criminal justice system in the world. Other metrics matter, of course, but let's not kid ourselves: the American system is an unmitigated disaster.

toasterlovin 7y ago
I see several comments complaining about the US incarceration rate without mentioning the US crime rate. You can’t credibly assert that the US incarceration rate is too high without knowing how it compares to the crime rate.
- creato 7y ago
  More than just the crime rate, the rate at which crimes are successfully prosecuted and the resources exist to enable incarceration. Some countries that have a very high crime rate [1], but have a much lower rate of incarceration than the US [2]. In these cases, the US having a higher prison population is just a consequence of the US being wealthy. 1. http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/crime-rate-by-country/ http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/crime-rate-by-cou... 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarcera...
- axlee 7y ago
  A high crime rate is a telltale sign of a dysfunctional society, anyway. Something is rotten.
  - toasterlovin 7y ago
    The US does not have the same class structure as most developed nations. We have 40 million black Americans who are descended from slaves and faced legal discrimination up until the mid-1960s. This population makes up a disproportionate share of our prison population. Since then, a second extremely large ethnic underclass had immigrated across the US’s southern border. This population also makes up a disproportionate share of our prison population. As far as I am aware, this is unique among developed western nations.
- dragonwriter 7y ago
  > I see several comments complaining about the US incarceration rate without mentioning the US crime rate. The former is a major cause of the latter. > You can’t credibly assert that the US incarceration rate is too high without knowing how it compares to the crime rate. The incarceration rate is too high, in part, because it drives the crime rate. It's also too high because it's historically largely a product of criminal justice policies adopted as a direct replacement for chattel slavery as a tool of racial suppression and which have continued to this day with that effect, having spread beyond the region which had chattel slavery to replace to the whole nation. This is particularly true of penal slavery.
- FireBeyond 7y ago
  There's more to it than that - there's the plea bargain system, which is largely considered to be unethical elsewhere, that increases the _conviction_ rate.
nine_k 7y ago
In some places, incarceration rates could be lower only because capital punishment is much more widely used. Not that US's incarceration rates are sane; to the contrary. I definitely think that incarceration is actively harmful at fighting crime, because it puts a criminal in an environment of worse criminals, and provides room and board to just hang with them and learn their rules by heart (or be abused, or killed by them). Then the felon is released and has a lot of trouble finding work, so the new criminal knowledge burns to be used.
- Retric 7y ago
  You can sanity check those assumptions. Worldwide executions are rare especially compared to US incarceration rates. https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2019/04/death-penalty-facts-and-figures-2018/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2019/04/death-penalty...

toasterlovin 7y ago

I see several comments complaining about the US incarceration rate without mentioning the US crime rate. You can’t credibly assert that the US incarceration rate is too high without knowing how it compares to the crime rate.

creato 7y ago
More than just the crime rate, the rate at which crimes are successfully prosecuted and the resources exist to enable incarceration. Some countries that have a very high crime rate [1], but have a much lower rate of incarceration than the US [2]. In these cases, the US having a higher prison population is just a consequence of the US being wealthy. 1. http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/crime-rate-by-country/ http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/crime-rate-by-cou... 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarcera...
axlee 7y ago
A high crime rate is a telltale sign of a dysfunctional society, anyway. Something is rotten.
- toasterlovin 7y ago
  The US does not have the same class structure as most developed nations. We have 40 million black Americans who are descended from slaves and faced legal discrimination up until the mid-1960s. This population makes up a disproportionate share of our prison population. Since then, a second extremely large ethnic underclass had immigrated across the US’s southern border. This population also makes up a disproportionate share of our prison population. As far as I am aware, this is unique among developed western nations.
dragonwriter 7y ago
> I see several comments complaining about the US incarceration rate without mentioning the US crime rate. The former is a major cause of the latter. > You can’t credibly assert that the US incarceration rate is too high without knowing how it compares to the crime rate. The incarceration rate is too high, in part, because it drives the crime rate. It's also too high because it's historically largely a product of criminal justice policies adopted as a direct replacement for chattel slavery as a tool of racial suppression and which have continued to this day with that effect, having spread beyond the region which had chattel slavery to replace to the whole nation. This is particularly true of penal slavery.
FireBeyond 7y ago
There's more to it than that - there's the plea bargain system, which is largely considered to be unethical elsewhere, that increases the _conviction_ rate.

nine_k 7y ago

In some places, incarceration rates could be lower only because capital punishment is much more widely used. Not that US's incarceration rates are sane; to the contrary. I definitely think that incarceration is actively harmful at fighting crime, because it puts a criminal in an environment of worse criminals, and provides room and board to just hang with them and learn their rules by heart (or be abused, or killed by them). Then the felon is released and has a lot of trouble finding work, so the new criminal knowledge burns to be used.

Retric 7y ago
You can sanity check those assumptions. Worldwide executions are rare especially compared to US incarceration rates. https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2019/04/death-penalty-facts-and-figures-2018/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2019/04/death-penalty...