5 ms·

Simply pointing out that an iconic city in EUROPE has a large amount of non-Europeans is a dogwhistle? Parisian culture is all but dead and it’s a tragedy.

core-questions 7y ago
There's an easy solution to this, of course, which is to simply pretend there was never any such thing as Parisian culture, or alternately, rebrand it as inherently evil and worthy of destruction. Isn't Paris so much cleaner, safer, and better now that all of the oppression of the past is over?
lifeformed 7y ago
Not just pointing it out, but putting it in a list of extreme negatives to the city.
- douglasmurray12 7y ago
  Japan is a fairly ethnically and culturally homogeneous country. It is natural that they would expect Parisians to look and behave a certain way. When they don't, it is of course a big negative to many visitors - they come to Paris expecting a certain look and feel, a certain atmosphere and culture, but they are getting something else. You do not need to be from Japan to feel that way when visiting Paris either. And I do not see anything wrong with pointing that out.
  - lifeformed 7y ago
    Here's how it sounds if worded more frankly: "Paris sucks. The transport sucks, bathrooms suck, food sucks, everyone's rude, and there's lots of immigrants."
IfOnlyYouKnew 7y ago
Wow... At the point where you're professing sadness for Paris' dead culture in reference to the immigrant population, it's no longer a dogwhistle. It's just blatantly obvious standard-issue racism. Also most of the people in the Banlieus are third-generation French. Thinking of them as "non-Europeans" is another big fat racist standard. And also part of the reason these people are having a difficult time succeeding in France.
- remarkEon 7y ago
  Cultures die all the time, and it's usually due to a number of factors - one of them of course being immigration. Pointing this out is not racist. It's a statement of fact, with plenty of history to boot. >It's just blatantly obvious standard-issue racism. No, it isn't. There have been entire neighborhoods in e.g. Harlem that have been gentrified out of their cultural heritage. Is lamenting that fact racist? I for one think it's sad, that a culture that was distinctly black is now gone forever - and it's not racist to say this. Now, Harlem is likely a bad example because it's a place in America, where we are supposed to be a melting pot and this kind of thing happens all the time. I don't have enough experience in Europe to give a more pertinent example, but again I still don't think it's at all bad to lament the fact that there's been some cultural turnover - especially when it happens on a very short timeline. That seems perfectly normal.
- cmdshiftf4 7y ago
  >At the point where you're professing sadness for Paris' dead culture in reference to the immigrant population, it's no longer a dogwhistle. It's just blatantly obvious standard-issue racism. There is nothing racist in saying that importing vast numbers of people from a different culture into another will radically change the culture native to that area. Quite the contrary, it's absolute fantasy to try and pretend it does not. I understand that the concept may be completely foreign to someone who has grown up in modern America, but it's a rising issue amongst Europeans to the extent that the EU has created a position titled "VP for Protecting Our European Way of Life" in the midst of Europeans getting continually more aggrieved over the cultural changes happening with mass migration and worse - the cultural changes expected of them to facilitate that mass migration. If we can't get past the hand-wringing and proclamations of "racist!" every time someone infers anything remotely negative about immigration, especially mass migration as Europe has encountered, then I can guarantee you there are very dark times ahead. There are positives and negatives to migration, to bang the drums happily when discussing the positives and then sticking one's fingers in one's ears, closing one's eyes and lashing out when the negatives are brought up is a very dangerous game to play, and that is on any topic, not constrained to migration.
- shard972 7y ago
  > At the point where you're professing sadness for Paris' dead culture in reference to the immigrant population, it's no longer a dogwhistle. It's just blatantly obvious standard-issue racism. If its racist to identify race then you can call me a racist. Sorry, race exists, get over yourself.

core-questions 7y ago

There's an easy solution to this, of course, which is to simply pretend there was never any such thing as Parisian culture, or alternately, rebrand it as inherently evil and worthy of destruction. Isn't Paris so much cleaner, safer, and better now that all of the oppression of the past is over?

lifeformed 7y ago

Not just pointing it out, but putting it in a list of extreme negatives to the city.

douglasmurray12 7y ago
Japan is a fairly ethnically and culturally homogeneous country. It is natural that they would expect Parisians to look and behave a certain way. When they don't, it is of course a big negative to many visitors - they come to Paris expecting a certain look and feel, a certain atmosphere and culture, but they are getting something else. You do not need to be from Japan to feel that way when visiting Paris either. And I do not see anything wrong with pointing that out.
- lifeformed 7y ago
  Here's how it sounds if worded more frankly: "Paris sucks. The transport sucks, bathrooms suck, food sucks, everyone's rude, and there's lots of immigrants."

IfOnlyYouKnew 7y ago

Wow... At the point where you're professing sadness for Paris' dead culture in reference to the immigrant population, it's no longer a dogwhistle. It's just blatantly obvious standard-issue racism. Also most of the people in the Banlieus are third-generation French. Thinking of them as "non-Europeans" is another big fat racist standard. And also part of the reason these people are having a difficult time succeeding in France.

remarkEon 7y ago
Cultures die all the time, and it's usually due to a number of factors - one of them of course being immigration. Pointing this out is not racist. It's a statement of fact, with plenty of history to boot. >It's just blatantly obvious standard-issue racism. No, it isn't. There have been entire neighborhoods in e.g. Harlem that have been gentrified out of their cultural heritage. Is lamenting that fact racist? I for one think it's sad, that a culture that was distinctly black is now gone forever - and it's not racist to say this. Now, Harlem is likely a bad example because it's a place in America, where we are supposed to be a melting pot and this kind of thing happens all the time. I don't have enough experience in Europe to give a more pertinent example, but again I still don't think it's at all bad to lament the fact that there's been some cultural turnover - especially when it happens on a very short timeline. That seems perfectly normal.
cmdshiftf4 7y ago
>At the point where you're professing sadness for Paris' dead culture in reference to the immigrant population, it's no longer a dogwhistle. It's just blatantly obvious standard-issue racism. There is nothing racist in saying that importing vast numbers of people from a different culture into another will radically change the culture native to that area. Quite the contrary, it's absolute fantasy to try and pretend it does not. I understand that the concept may be completely foreign to someone who has grown up in modern America, but it's a rising issue amongst Europeans to the extent that the EU has created a position titled "VP for Protecting Our European Way of Life" in the midst of Europeans getting continually more aggrieved over the cultural changes happening with mass migration and worse - the cultural changes expected of them to facilitate that mass migration. If we can't get past the hand-wringing and proclamations of "racist!" every time someone infers anything remotely negative about immigration, especially mass migration as Europe has encountered, then I can guarantee you there are very dark times ahead. There are positives and negatives to migration, to bang the drums happily when discussing the positives and then sticking one's fingers in one's ears, closing one's eyes and lashing out when the negatives are brought up is a very dangerous game to play, and that is on any topic, not constrained to migration.
shard972 7y ago
> At the point where you're professing sadness for Paris' dead culture in reference to the immigrant population, it's no longer a dogwhistle. It's just blatantly obvious standard-issue racism. If its racist to identify race then you can call me a racist. Sorry, race exists, get over yourself.