5 ms·

"People are absolutely not what you’d expect french to look like ( and i’m not talking about size)" What would you "expect" the French to look like, that they

"People are absolutely not what you’d expect french to look like ( and i’m not talking about size)" What would you "expect" the French to look like, that they do not look like in Paris (while cities in Europe are all much more non-white than the countryside, which for the commenter does not have the same problem)? This is a dogwhistle.

ThrowawayR2 7y ago
Frankly, you are reading subtexts in the original post that are clearly not there. The sensible interpretation is that Parisians don't look like the stereotype that non-French have: https://www.google.com/search?q=stereotypical+frenchman&tbm=isch https://www.google.com/search?q=stereotypical+frenchman&tbm=...
- claudiawerner 7y ago
  That interpretation would only make sense, charitably, if OP for whatever reason thought that people look like those images anywhere else in France (unless you're joking, and I'm missing out on the irony).
- ivanbakel 7y ago
  This is a slightly ridiculous position if it is taken genuinely - just look at the other comments in this thread complaining about "melting pots" and "cultural erasure". More to the point - dogwhistles are meant to give subtexts with plausible deniability. That you can find an alternative meaning for them is precisely their intent. It is not a compelling argument to claim that the original commenter was, in fact, innocent - you should instead be able to absolve them beyond all doubt. And clearly that isn't possible here.
  - leftyted 7y ago
    I have a fantasy of Paris as a city of beautiful, elegant people, effortlessly fashionable who walk from outdoor cafe to outdoor cafe where they order espresso and croissants while carrying baguettes under their arms. So when I read the original comment, that (admittedly childish) impression came to mind. The fact that other people immediate jumped to "melting pots" and "cultural erasure" doesn't indicate that that's what the original comment was referring to. > More to the point - dogwhistles are meant to give subtexts with plausible deniability. That you can find an alternative meaning for them is precisely their intent. Human communication is difficult. The original comment wasn't specific and so it acted as a rorschach test. It isn't possible to know what the original poster meant without asking. > It is not a compelling argument to claim that the original commenter was, in fact, innocent - you should instead be able to absolve them beyond all doubt. No. It isn't possible to "absolve someone of all doubt" when the accusation is "vague racist dog whistle". You have to deal with uncertainty in these situations and your inability to do that, to understand that the meaning of a sentence as intended by the author is almost always partially undefined and open to interpretation, is seriously disturbing.
    - cma 7y ago
      > I have a fantasy of Paris as a city of beautiful, elegant people, effortlessly fashionable who walk from outdoor cafe to outdoor cafe where they order espresso and croissants while carrying baguettes under their arms. So when I read the original comment, that (admittedly childish) impression came to mind. The linked article says: > Renoux indicates that Japanese media, magazines in particular, often depict Paris as a place where most people on the street look like "stick-thin" models and most women dress in high fashion brands such as Louis Vuitton. So when OP said he wasn’t talking about size, presumably in reference to that, I read it as a dog whistle too. Especially given the whole “great replacement” conspiracy out there and Trump’s “Paris isn’t Paris anymore.” The whole point of a dog whistle is plausible deniability though, so who knows for sure.
notduncansmith 7y ago
> cities in Europe are all much more non-white than the countryside, which for the commenter does not have the same problem Interesting. I have not been to Europe so did not have that context, but thank you very much for explaining.
GrayTextIsTruth 7y ago
> What would you "expect" the French to look like Like French, like Europeans. Must France be a “melting pot” too? Why do Americans project so much?
- frostburg 7y ago
  Nobody forced the French to colonize a significant portion of the world, by the way.
  - GrayTextIsTruth 7y ago
    What about Berlin and Stockholm? It’s not unique to the colonizers.
    - IfOnlyYouKnew 7y ago
      In Berlin. A great city: fast, honest, poor & sexy. Stay away.
  - douglasmurray12 7y ago
    But what Paris has become is not somehow a direct consequence of colonialism. Those were two separate decisions, and should be criticized and judged separately.
    - frostburg 7y ago
      All those people of Algerian descent surely aren't there by chance.
      - douglasmurray12 7y ago
        I could be wrong, but it is my understanding that it was a deliberate policy of the French government after WW2 to invite them in. It is also natural that French-speaking people of the world would prefer to migrate to France. But if French governments wanted to limit migration from Algeria or elsewhere, they could have done so. It was certainly not an inevitable consequence of colonialism.

ThrowawayR2 7y ago

Frankly, you are reading subtexts in the original post that are clearly not there. The sensible interpretation is that Parisians don't look like the stereotype that non-French have: https://www.google.com/search?q=stereotypical+frenchman&tbm=isch https://www.google.com/search?q=stereotypical+frenchman&tbm=...

claudiawerner 7y ago
That interpretation would only make sense, charitably, if OP for whatever reason thought that people look like those images anywhere else in France (unless you're joking, and I'm missing out on the irony).
ivanbakel 7y ago
This is a slightly ridiculous position if it is taken genuinely - just look at the other comments in this thread complaining about "melting pots" and "cultural erasure". More to the point - dogwhistles are meant to give subtexts with plausible deniability. That you can find an alternative meaning for them is precisely their intent. It is not a compelling argument to claim that the original commenter was, in fact, innocent - you should instead be able to absolve them beyond all doubt. And clearly that isn't possible here.
- leftyted 7y ago
  I have a fantasy of Paris as a city of beautiful, elegant people, effortlessly fashionable who walk from outdoor cafe to outdoor cafe where they order espresso and croissants while carrying baguettes under their arms. So when I read the original comment, that (admittedly childish) impression came to mind. The fact that other people immediate jumped to "melting pots" and "cultural erasure" doesn't indicate that that's what the original comment was referring to. > More to the point - dogwhistles are meant to give subtexts with plausible deniability. That you can find an alternative meaning for them is precisely their intent. Human communication is difficult. The original comment wasn't specific and so it acted as a rorschach test. It isn't possible to know what the original poster meant without asking. > It is not a compelling argument to claim that the original commenter was, in fact, innocent - you should instead be able to absolve them beyond all doubt. No. It isn't possible to "absolve someone of all doubt" when the accusation is "vague racist dog whistle". You have to deal with uncertainty in these situations and your inability to do that, to understand that the meaning of a sentence as intended by the author is almost always partially undefined and open to interpretation, is seriously disturbing.
  - cma 7y ago
    > I have a fantasy of Paris as a city of beautiful, elegant people, effortlessly fashionable who walk from outdoor cafe to outdoor cafe where they order espresso and croissants while carrying baguettes under their arms. So when I read the original comment, that (admittedly childish) impression came to mind. The linked article says: > Renoux indicates that Japanese media, magazines in particular, often depict Paris as a place where most people on the street look like "stick-thin" models and most women dress in high fashion brands such as Louis Vuitton. So when OP said he wasn’t talking about size, presumably in reference to that, I read it as a dog whistle too. Especially given the whole “great replacement” conspiracy out there and Trump’s “Paris isn’t Paris anymore.” The whole point of a dog whistle is plausible deniability though, so who knows for sure.

notduncansmith 7y ago

> cities in Europe are all much more non-white than the countryside, which for the commenter does not have the same problem Interesting. I have not been to Europe so did not have that context, but thank you very much for explaining.

GrayTextIsTruth 7y ago

> What would you "expect" the French to look like Like French, like Europeans. Must France be a “melting pot” too? Why do Americans project so much?

frostburg 7y ago
Nobody forced the French to colonize a significant portion of the world, by the way.
- GrayTextIsTruth 7y ago
  What about Berlin and Stockholm? It’s not unique to the colonizers.
  - IfOnlyYouKnew 7y ago
    In Berlin. A great city: fast, honest, poor & sexy. Stay away.
- douglasmurray12 7y ago
  But what Paris has become is not somehow a direct consequence of colonialism. Those were two separate decisions, and should be criticized and judged separately.
  - frostburg 7y ago
    All those people of Algerian descent surely aren't there by chance.
    - douglasmurray12 7y ago
      I could be wrong, but it is my understanding that it was a deliberate policy of the French government after WW2 to invite them in. It is also natural that French-speaking people of the world would prefer to migrate to France. But if French governments wanted to limit migration from Algeria or elsewhere, they could have done so. It was certainly not an inevitable consequence of colonialism.