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let’s be honest. Paris center is really great, but all the rest is trash by any standard (not even the japanese one). And i’m not even talking about suburbs, w
by bsaul 7y ago
let’s be honest. Paris center is really great, but all the rest is trash by any standard (not even the japanese one).
And i’m not even talking about suburbs, which people coming from the airport must go through. People are absolutely not what you’d expect french to look like ( and i’m not talking about size), public transport are a total trash, working only half the time correctly.. Restrooms makes us look like a third world country, etc.
I could go on and on , but i’ll just sum it up with one anecdote : i spent a month in japan, and this is the first time in my life i felt ashamed of the way we treat tourists in Paris. Food in touristic places is garbage, people are generally rude, etc etc..
My advice if you want to visit paris : rent something nice in the center, and take a cab straight from the aiport, and make the ride by night.
- tristor 7y agoI think you're being downvoted for having a negative viewpoint, but what you said is very accurate. I'm not French, but I've spent some time in France and loved it. France is a gorgeous country and people were generally friendly and welcoming, Paris is the exception. There are parts of Paris which are nice, but a significant chunk of the city is exceptionally dreary (partly due to architectural design, heavy use of brutalism, etc), dirty, and many people I encountered in Paris were very rude to me, even before I opened my mouth. I've traveled all over the world, Paris is not anywhere near that bad compared to many places I've been, and generally I enjoy most places I spend time in because there's something positive to be found everywhere. But I wanted to reinforce your viewpoint, because it is not inaccurate, even though I find it to be somewhat one-sided. I don't believe sharing this deserves downvotes, especially in the context of the link.
- ivanbakel 7y agoThe OP is probably being down voted for the racist dogwhistle in their comment.
- notduncansmith 7y agoWhich part is the racist dogwhistle?
- ivanbakel 7y ago"People are absolutely not what you’d expect french to look like ( and i’m not talking about size)" What would you "expect" the French to look like, that they do not look like in Paris (while cities in Europe are all much more non-white than the countryside, which for the commenter does not have the same problem)? This is a dogwhistle.
- ThrowawayR2 7y agoFrankly, you are reading subtexts in the original post that are clearly not there. The sensible interpretation is that Parisians don't look like the stereotype that non-French have: https://www.google.com/search?q=stereotypical+frenchman&tbm=isch https://www.google.com/search?q=stereotypical+frenchman&tbm=...
- claudiawerner 7y agoThat interpretation would only make sense, charitably, if OP for whatever reason thought that people look like those images anywhere else in France (unless you're joking, and I'm missing out on the irony).
- ivanbakel 7y agoThis is a slightly ridiculous position if it is taken genuinely - just look at the other comments in this thread complaining about "melting pots" and "cultural erasure". More to the point - dogwhistles are meant to give subtexts with plausible deniability. That you can find an alternative meaning for them is precisely their intent. It is not a compelling argument to claim that the original commenter was, in fact, innocent - you should instead be able to absolve them beyond all doubt. And clearly that isn't possible here.
- leftyted 7y ago
- GrayTextIsTruth 7y agoSimply pointing out that an iconic city in EUROPE has a large amount of non-Europeans is a dogwhistle? Parisian culture is all but dead and it’s a tragedy.
- core-questions 7y agoThere's an easy solution to this, of course, which is to simply pretend there was never any such thing as Parisian culture, or alternately, rebrand it as inherently evil and worthy of destruction. Isn't Paris so much cleaner, safer, and better now that all of the oppression of the past is over?
- lifeformed 7y agoNot just pointing it out, but putting it in a list of extreme negatives to the city.
- douglasmurray12 7y agoJapan is a fairly ethnically and culturally homogeneous country. It is natural that they would expect Parisians to look and behave a certain way. When they don't, it is of course a big negative to many visitors - they come to Paris expecting a certain look and feel, a certain atmosphere and culture, but they are getting something else. You do not need to be from Japan to feel that way when visiting Paris either. And I do not see anything wrong with pointing that out.
- lifeformed 7y agoHere's how it sounds if worded more frankly: "Paris sucks. The transport sucks, bathrooms suck, food sucks, everyone's rude, and there's lots of immigrants."
- IfOnlyYouKnew 7y agoWow... At the point where you're professing sadness for Paris' dead culture in reference to the immigrant population, it's no longer a dogwhistle. It's just blatantly obvious standard-issue racism. Also most of the people in the Banlieus are third-generation French. Thinking of them as "non-Europeans" is another big fat racist standard. And also part of the reason these people are having a difficult time succeeding in France.
- jackfoxy 7y agoIs there a condition not listed as a recognised condition in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders for seeing racist dog whistles everywhere? Wokeness comes to mind.
- claudiawerner 7y agoI'm not the person you're replying to, but I can't imagine what else, other than race, "People are absolutely not what you’d expect french to look like ( and i’m not talking about size)" refers to exactly. Misuse of the term does not preclude the actual presence elsewhere.
- ThrowawayR2 7y agoBecause the only two characteristics Parisian people have are size and race? The very Wikipedia article we happen to be discussing contains "...Renoux indicates that Japanese media, magazines in particular, often depict Paris as a place where most people on the street look like "stick-thin" models and most women dress in high fashion brands such as Louis Vuitton...".
- claudiawerner 7y agoAre you familiar with the concept of euphemism and dog whistles? Please tell me what visual (since OP mentioned how Parisians "look") characteristic you presumed OP had in mind.
- ThrowawayR2 7y agoDuly addressed in my edit above. Are you familiar with the concept of confirmation bias? Look hard enough for something and you'll see it ... whether it's there or not.
- 93po 7y agoOne of the big stereotypes of Paris is fashion and high society. My assumption was that he was saying people are dressed like slobs, that there's a lot of evidence of poverty, and people don't hold themselves in a manner someone with an idealistic view of Paris and Parisians would imagine. Having been to Paris myself, all of these are true.
- mechnesium 7y agoI’m guessing that you didn’t read the Wikipedia article. Here’s the direct quote pertaining to appearance. “Renoux indicates that Japanese media, magazines in particular, often depict Paris as a place where most people on the street look like "stick-thin" models and most women dress in high fashion brands such as Louis Vuitton.” Your personal biases made you assume the previous commenter strictly implied race/color.
- jacobush 7y agoNo, it was speculation the downvoters assumed that. By the way, why do you assume bsaul read the article then? (I'm not saying bsaul didn't, but you are assuming bsaul did and ivanbakel didn't read the article.)
- yaacov 7y ago> and i’m not talking about size Was what OP said, so I think it’s reasonable to assume they weren’t talking about size.
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- dreamcompiler 7y agoCompletely agree. I've been to both Paris and Tokyo in the past year. In Paris we took extreme precautions with our belongings and we still got pickpocket attempts on the subway (fortunately none successful). In Tokyo of course we just took zero precautions because crime against tourists is virtually unheard-of (with the possible exception of Roppongi after dark, where the level of caution you need is still 1/10 that of any neighborhood of Paris.) I'm very sad about how stressed I felt on my last trip to Paris and how unfriendly it seems now. I'll probably never go back.
- kmlx 7y agotokyo is definitely one of the best cities in the world. i can only think of sidney as a competitor in quality of life. no european city comes close.
- dreamcompiler 7y agoOsaka has a lot to be said for it too. It has as much culture as Tokyo but the pace and energy are dialed back a bit. There are also fewer English speakers and the signage doesn't use as much Romaji, so your Japanese skills need to be a little sharper.
- baby 7y agoI'm french and indeed I would not recommend someone to go to Paris. There are much nicer cities here (Bordeaux, Montpellier, are some examples.) Also: send your tourists to San Francisco, we have even lower standards here :D
- GuB-42 7y agoI really like Montpellier, but just like with Paris (on a much, much smaller scale of course), the center is really nice, but not so much for the rest of the city. I think that's the case with most French cities. Nice centers but the surroundings are average at best. An exception would be Marseille, it is filthy even in the center ;).
- baby 7y agoYeah that's pretty much the design of French cities (and maybe European cities to an extent). The center is great, around the center is meh, suburbs are to be avoided. Very different from the typical American city.
- asdff 7y agoHave you ever been to Los Angeles? I love it but it is pretty gritty. Poke around with street view. Paris is a utopia in comparison--the metro map looks like a kid scribbled with crayons there are so many lines. American standards are pretty low.