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> Although desertification is sometimes thought of as the swallowing of lands adjacent to deserts, it is actually a process whereby land that was once fertile o

> Although desertification is sometimes thought of as the swallowing of lands adjacent to deserts, it is actually a process whereby land that was once fertile or semi-arable becomes desert as a result of things like unsustainable agricultural practices, or long-lasting drought. So, desert doesn't encroach. Does this imply that de-desertification also doesn't encroach? I'd like to think that a green vanguard paves the way for further colonizatiin, including by better water retention than sand; and capturing morning dew.

jobseeker990 7y ago
So you can find me a large barren field in a rainy region that was created by unsustainable agriculture? On the contrary, life finds a way. unless an area is nearly 100% devoid of water you're going to find some life there, and if it's rainy, something will certainly be growing.
- close04 7y ago
  Unsustainable agriculture is one of the reasons for desertification. Deforestation, sedentary cultivation of lands that normally only support pastoralism, groundwater depletion, these can trigger desertification. The most affected are indeed the areas that have a more precarious balance like drylands. But this comprises almost half of the Earth's freely accessible land surface. Being in a rainy region covers up for the issue, gives you a wider margin for error. > life finds a way That's not a good reason to screw with it wherever and whenever we can. This is more appropriate to say in the context of humans being gone because otherwise we have so many ways to let life only find the way to extinction.
  - mrfusion 7y ago
    But like op is asking. Is there an example of desertification from unsustainable agriculture? Seems kind of unbelievable to me too. In fact I’d do some unsustainable agriculture on my sidewalk to stop weeds from growing.
    - jvanderbot 7y ago
      Dust Bowl?
      - mrfusion 7y ago
        For a time that’s true but it didn’t turn into a permanent desert. As least as far as my bing searches are turning up.
    - GeekyBear 7y ago
      Weren't large areas of North Africa that are now desert used as Roman farmland?
- CalRobert 7y ago
  Yes, I have one. Just monoculture grass and dandelions. Not "nothing" but very little diversity.
- thatcat 7y ago
  Soil moisture retention is determined by soil structure and composition.
  - AtlasLion 7y ago
    Yout could collect biodegradable trash from the same city, compost it and help change the soil structure.
- catalogia 7y ago
  > "So you can find me a large barren field in a rainy region that was created by unsustainable agriculture?" Is 40 acres big enough? >"The Desert of Maine is a 40-acre (160,000 m2) tract of exposed glacial silt (a sand-like substance, but finer-grained than sand) surrounded by a pine forest near the town of Freeport, Maine, in the United States. The Desert of Maine is not a true desert, as it receives an abundance of precipitation, and the surrounding vegetation is being allowed to encroach on the barren dunes." >"The Desert of Maine originated when the Tuttle family purchased and began farming the site beginning in 1797. Failure to rotate their potato crops, combined with land clearance and followed by overgrazing by sheep, led to soil erosion, exposing a dune of sand-like glacial silt. The initially-exposed small patch of sand gradually spread and overtook the entire farm. The Tuttles abandoned the land in 1919 when it was purchased for $300 ($7.50/acre) by Henry Goldrup, who converted it to a tourist attraction in 1925.[1]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desert_of_Maine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desert_of_Maine
  - perl4ever 7y ago
    "40 acres and a mule" is what each freed family was proverbially promised after the US Civil War, so it seems like it wasn't considered a huge amount in 1865.
    - catalogia 7y ago
      Whether or not the Tuttle family were wealthy is beyond the point. 400^2 meters of Maine turning into sand dunes is plenty large enough to demonstrate that mismanagement of farm land can destroy the fertility of that land.
- jddj 7y ago
  Soil salinization as a result of unsustainable farming practices messing up the water table are one example of life not just finding a way.
- boulos 7y ago
  The Céide Fields in Ireland [1] are believed to be caused by previous unsustainable agriculture. There’s stuff growing, but it’s definitely not productive land anymore. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Céide_Fields https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Céide_Fields
seltzered_ 7y ago
Think there's more layers to the desertification problem. Desertification also can be linked to activities impacting climate - One paper talks about aerosols (likely via coal use in europe in the early 1900's) as a driver to droughts in Sahelian Africa and the Amazon: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.652.3232&rep=rep1&type=pdf http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.652...
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

jobseeker990 7y ago

So you can find me a large barren field in a rainy region that was created by unsustainable agriculture? On the contrary, life finds a way. unless an area is nearly 100% devoid of water you're going to find some life there, and if it's rainy, something will certainly be growing.

close04 7y ago
Unsustainable agriculture is one of the reasons for desertification. Deforestation, sedentary cultivation of lands that normally only support pastoralism, groundwater depletion, these can trigger desertification. The most affected are indeed the areas that have a more precarious balance like drylands. But this comprises almost half of the Earth's freely accessible land surface. Being in a rainy region covers up for the issue, gives you a wider margin for error. > life finds a way That's not a good reason to screw with it wherever and whenever we can. This is more appropriate to say in the context of humans being gone because otherwise we have so many ways to let life only find the way to extinction.
- mrfusion 7y ago
  But like op is asking. Is there an example of desertification from unsustainable agriculture? Seems kind of unbelievable to me too. In fact I’d do some unsustainable agriculture on my sidewalk to stop weeds from growing.
  - jvanderbot 7y ago
    Dust Bowl?
    - mrfusion 7y ago
      For a time that’s true but it didn’t turn into a permanent desert. As least as far as my bing searches are turning up.
  - GeekyBear 7y ago
    Weren't large areas of North Africa that are now desert used as Roman farmland?
CalRobert 7y ago
Yes, I have one. Just monoculture grass and dandelions. Not "nothing" but very little diversity.
thatcat 7y ago
Soil moisture retention is determined by soil structure and composition.
- AtlasLion 7y ago
  Yout could collect biodegradable trash from the same city, compost it and help change the soil structure.
catalogia 7y ago
> "So you can find me a large barren field in a rainy region that was created by unsustainable agriculture?" Is 40 acres big enough? >"The Desert of Maine is a 40-acre (160,000 m2) tract of exposed glacial silt (a sand-like substance, but finer-grained than sand) surrounded by a pine forest near the town of Freeport, Maine, in the United States. The Desert of Maine is not a true desert, as it receives an abundance of precipitation, and the surrounding vegetation is being allowed to encroach on the barren dunes." >"The Desert of Maine originated when the Tuttle family purchased and began farming the site beginning in 1797. Failure to rotate their potato crops, combined with land clearance and followed by overgrazing by sheep, led to soil erosion, exposing a dune of sand-like glacial silt. The initially-exposed small patch of sand gradually spread and overtook the entire farm. The Tuttles abandoned the land in 1919 when it was purchased for $300 ($7.50/acre) by Henry Goldrup, who converted it to a tourist attraction in 1925.[1]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desert_of_Maine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desert_of_Maine
- perl4ever 7y ago
  "40 acres and a mule" is what each freed family was proverbially promised after the US Civil War, so it seems like it wasn't considered a huge amount in 1865.
  - catalogia 7y ago
    Whether or not the Tuttle family were wealthy is beyond the point. 400^2 meters of Maine turning into sand dunes is plenty large enough to demonstrate that mismanagement of farm land can destroy the fertility of that land.
jddj 7y ago
Soil salinization as a result of unsustainable farming practices messing up the water table are one example of life not just finding a way.
boulos 7y ago
The Céide Fields in Ireland [1] are believed to be caused by previous unsustainable agriculture. There’s stuff growing, but it’s definitely not productive land anymore. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Céide_Fields https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Céide_Fields

seltzered_ 7y ago

Think there's more layers to the desertification problem. Desertification also can be linked to activities impacting climate - One paper talks about aerosols (likely via coal use in europe in the early 1900's) as a driver to droughts in Sahelian Africa and the Amazon: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.652.3232&rep=rep1&type=pdf http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.652...

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]