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I am going to go out on a very short limb and predict that Apple does no such thing in the foreseeable future, say 3 or 4 years. In the past, Apple has only tra

I am going to go out on a very short limb and predict that Apple does no such thing in the foreseeable future, say 3 or 4 years. In the past, Apple has only transitioned to a new architecture once it was so powerful that it could easily emulate older hardware. Apple doesn't care about backwards compatibility as much as Microsoft on desktops but even they cannot release a new desktop/laptop that doesn't run existing software. Although ARM processors are fast in certain benchmarks, they cannot compete with x86 for performance and certainly cannot emulate the instruction set at a speed users would find acceptable. ARM makes great sense for low power devices and _maybe_ servers. Apple already makes tons of the former and seems uninterested in the later.

runjake 7y ago
Apple is (gradually) transitioning to ARM as we speak, right before our very eyes: the T2 chip and Bitcode. The A-series chips in the iPhone and iPad seem to compare pretty favorable to Intel processors in the low to mid end. Now imagine a version of the A-series processor with more space, thermal headroom, and cores.
- ksec 7y ago
  >the T2 chip and Bitcode. BitCode is iOS only.
  - runjake 7y ago
    There's a plan for that. https://www.highcaffeinecontent.com/blog/20190518-Translating-an-ARM-iOS-App-to-Intel-macOS-Using-Bitcode https://www.highcaffeinecontent.com/blog/20190518-Translatin...
    - saagarjha 7y ago
      That article is overly optimistic and only works for the very specific, tailored example application. However, Bitcode is essentially repackaged LLVM IR so it's not hard to see it coming to macOS.
fmajid 7y ago
My iPad Pro is as fast on single-thread as all my Intel desktop machines, and 2/3 on multicore. In a non-thermally throttled enclosure, I would expect it to outperform. https://browser.geekbench.com/user/122632 https://browser.geekbench.com/user/122632
- Macha 7y ago
  Right, but 1-2x perf is not nearly enough to naively emulate a system.
  - ridiculous_fish 7y ago
    Rosetta was not a naive emulator. It was a dynamic, optimizing re-compiler. There's two reasons to think that an ARM transition would be easier: 1. The endianness is the same. The PPC/Intel transition required processes to share memory while disagreeing on byte order. 2. Apple controls their ARM CPU designs. They can add whatever they like.
    - andrekandre 7y ago
      right, and 3. rosetta only emulated the actual app binary; eventually it called in to native libs, so performance for the most part held up really well iirc (for apps, not sure about games)
- blattimwind 7y ago
  > My iPad Pro is as fast on single-thread as all my Intel desktop machines, and 2/3 on multicore in Geekbench. That particular benchmark has been critized for years for not being comparable across platforms.
leoc 7y ago
It should be about 4 years from now that the x86-64 patents have expired, so I wonder (not an expert on anything) if we might see Macs with dual-architecture features after that, whether full support for two instruction sets or just some mixture of software emulation and hardware acceleration for x86.

runjake 7y ago

Apple is (gradually) transitioning to ARM as we speak, right before our very eyes: the T2 chip and Bitcode. The A-series chips in the iPhone and iPad seem to compare pretty favorable to Intel processors in the low to mid end. Now imagine a version of the A-series processor with more space, thermal headroom, and cores.

ksec 7y ago
>the T2 chip and Bitcode. BitCode is iOS only.
- runjake 7y ago
  There's a plan for that. https://www.highcaffeinecontent.com/blog/20190518-Translating-an-ARM-iOS-App-to-Intel-macOS-Using-Bitcode https://www.highcaffeinecontent.com/blog/20190518-Translatin...
  - saagarjha 7y ago
    That article is overly optimistic and only works for the very specific, tailored example application. However, Bitcode is essentially repackaged LLVM IR so it's not hard to see it coming to macOS.

fmajid 7y ago

My iPad Pro is as fast on single-thread as all my Intel desktop machines, and 2/3 on multicore. In a non-thermally throttled enclosure, I would expect it to outperform. https://browser.geekbench.com/user/122632 https://browser.geekbench.com/user/122632

Macha 7y ago
Right, but 1-2x perf is not nearly enough to naively emulate a system.
- ridiculous_fish 7y ago
  Rosetta was not a naive emulator. It was a dynamic, optimizing re-compiler. There's two reasons to think that an ARM transition would be easier: 1. The endianness is the same. The PPC/Intel transition required processes to share memory while disagreeing on byte order. 2. Apple controls their ARM CPU designs. They can add whatever they like.
  - andrekandre 7y ago
    right, and 3. rosetta only emulated the actual app binary; eventually it called in to native libs, so performance for the most part held up really well iirc (for apps, not sure about games)
blattimwind 7y ago
> My iPad Pro is as fast on single-thread as all my Intel desktop machines, and 2/3 on multicore in Geekbench. That particular benchmark has been critized for years for not being comparable across platforms.

leoc 7y ago

It should be about 4 years from now that the x86-64 patents have expired, so I wonder (not an expert on anything) if we might see Macs with dual-architecture features after that, whether full support for two instruction sets or just some mixture of software emulation and hardware acceleration for x86.