5 ms·

The labor force participation rates for men and women are currently at 69.2% and 57.7% respectively. They arbitrarily exclude farming positions but cite mining,

by shiado 7y ago

The labor force participation rates for men and women are currently at 69.2% and 57.7% respectively. They arbitrarily exclude farming positions but cite mining, logging, manufacturing, transportation, and warehouse roles traditionally occupied by men. This article doesn't really seem to paint a full or accurate picture.

missosoup 7y ago
So the total labor force participation rate is ... 126.9% ? edit: ok, ok, I got confused with the wording, I get it, you can stop hammering with downvotes. I'll leave the above up as my mark of shame.
- axlee 7y ago
  69.2% of all men are in the labor force, and 57.7% of all women are in the labor force.
boomboomsubban 7y ago
I doubt the exclusion of farming positions is arbitrary, the area is full of self/family employment and illegal employment that probably caused the exclusion. It does paint a false narrative though.
- dooglius 7y ago
  I think it has more to do with the fact that farm employment is seasonal.
  - boomboomsubban 7y ago
    Probably a large factor.
  - washadjeffmad 7y ago
    Seasonal, migratory, undocumented, and not representative of the populations or markets this data is intended to be used to serve.
- asdff 7y ago
  The family farm model died out decades and decades ago fwiw.
  - boomboomsubban 7y ago
    It changed, there are still farm families.
    - teclordphrack2 7y ago
      There are still family farms BUT they are farms where you have multiple people in the family that have gone to university, even have masters, phd, law degrees, business degrees. They don't treat it as a family farm anymore. What people used to call a family farm year/decades ago is now more likely classified as a hobby farm.
      - boomboomsubban 7y ago
        They still have many members of their family working for a nontraditional salary, often including teens. The traditional family farm is gone, farm families are still a thing.
- Bartweiss 7y ago
  It's a longstanding measurement, yeah. And it's not actually just excluding agriculture, the definition removes a whole cluster of jobs that are especially hard to track accurately, including all of nonprofit employment and unincorporated self-employment (i.e. most of construction, handymanning, etc.) Of course, farm labor and unincorporated self-employment are heavily male, and nonprofit work is heavily female. So it's a useful statistic for accurate change-over-time data, but stories like this treating 50% as an inherently meaningful tipping point are wildly misleading.
AnimalMuppet 7y ago
Wait, so women make up the majority of the non-farm labor force, but the labor force participation rate is 12% higher for men? How does that work? Are 12% of men either in the military or on disability? Or what?
- alexis_fr 7y ago
  2.3 million men are in prison in USA. The definition is “divided by the total noninstitutionalized, civilian working-age population.” As a counter-example, average IQ at the workplace is 110. Where’s everyone under IQ90? Injured, suicide, drug addicts etc.
  - twojacobtwo 7y ago
    What is the source on the average IQ at the workplace?
  - thrwaway69 7y ago
    Average IQ is [1]98 and decreasing. Don't think it would be statistically possible for everyone to have 110 as IQ in workplaces. [2] For your other claims about low IQ. It is "correlated" with lower lifespan (bit different than what you claimed but causes are similar) since you didn't cite. You can find studies explaining high IQ with differences in environment or income and others point to genes. Some studies claim the choice of [3]toys your kids play with correlates to their IQ and success in life while others ask you to find a good genetic match. Depending on which camps you are in, IQ could be highly related to the poor condition of the society. * -15 points for not getting a healthy diet and regular health check ups in your childhood. * -15 points for lack of proper education, social and family structure in your childhood. * -17 points for mental health problems, unemployment, poverty and limited freedom after you become an adult. Those issues overlap with each other regardless of IQ. Although, you can argue Intelligent parents can change these outcomes and if you believe IQ is heritable, then it makes perfect sense. You can use that to explain your bias. Historically, evidence has been carefully crafted to promote products, services, aristocracy and many other things. I believe a lot happens now too with a different vector (China manipulating their averages) so I think IQ is not a good metric for looking down on people and explaining other circumstantial problems. 1] https://www.healthline.com/health/average-iq https://www.healthline.com/health/average-iq 2] https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/research-confirms-a-link-between-intelligence-and-life-expectancy/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/research-confirms... 3] https://www.parentingscience.com/intelligence.html https://www.parentingscience.com/intelligence.html
empath75 7y ago
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/n/nonfarmpayroll.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/n/nonfarmpayroll.asp
IfOnlyYouKnew 7y ago
FWIW I see "non-farm employment" rather often when anything related to unemployment happens. From what I gather, it's how all the data has been categorized forever. So while I can't give you the reasoning behind it, and don't know if it's still valid or now just being done to make the data comparable, I can assure you choosing this statistic wasn't a bad-faith attempt to manipulate.
- freepor 7y ago
  Farm employment has always been more informal, harder to track, and rife with illegal practices (child labor, illegal immigrants, minimum wage violations) that make reported data hard to trust/reason from.
- grawprog 7y ago
  Even here in Canada farm related employment is classed separately for a variety of things including taxes and employment insurance. I've never really thought much about it, but every employment related government form I've ever filled out is like that.
teclordphrack2 7y ago
Farm work much of the time is ephemeral. There is a small window for goods to be picked. There is a small window for the tractors to be up kept post or pre harvest/planting. And, as others have said it can be a paper money transaction business.

by shiado 7y ago

missosoup 7y ago

So the total labor force participation rate is ... 126.9% ? edit: ok, ok, I got confused with the wording, I get it, you can stop hammering with downvotes. I'll leave the above up as my mark of shame.

axlee 7y ago
69.2% of all men are in the labor force, and 57.7% of all women are in the labor force.

boomboomsubban 7y ago

I doubt the exclusion of farming positions is arbitrary, the area is full of self/family employment and illegal employment that probably caused the exclusion. It does paint a false narrative though.

dooglius 7y ago
I think it has more to do with the fact that farm employment is seasonal.
- boomboomsubban 7y ago
  Probably a large factor.
- washadjeffmad 7y ago
  Seasonal, migratory, undocumented, and not representative of the populations or markets this data is intended to be used to serve.
asdff 7y ago
The family farm model died out decades and decades ago fwiw.
- boomboomsubban 7y ago
  It changed, there are still farm families.
  - teclordphrack2 7y ago
    There are still family farms BUT they are farms where you have multiple people in the family that have gone to university, even have masters, phd, law degrees, business degrees. They don't treat it as a family farm anymore. What people used to call a family farm year/decades ago is now more likely classified as a hobby farm.
    - boomboomsubban 7y ago
      They still have many members of their family working for a nontraditional salary, often including teens. The traditional family farm is gone, farm families are still a thing.
Bartweiss 7y ago
It's a longstanding measurement, yeah. And it's not actually just excluding agriculture, the definition removes a whole cluster of jobs that are especially hard to track accurately, including all of nonprofit employment and unincorporated self-employment (i.e. most of construction, handymanning, etc.) Of course, farm labor and unincorporated self-employment are heavily male, and nonprofit work is heavily female. So it's a useful statistic for accurate change-over-time data, but stories like this treating 50% as an inherently meaningful tipping point are wildly misleading.

AnimalMuppet 7y ago

Wait, so women make up the majority of the non-farm labor force, but the labor force participation rate is 12% higher for men? How does that work? Are 12% of men either in the military or on disability? Or what?

alexis_fr 7y ago
2.3 million men are in prison in USA. The definition is “divided by the total noninstitutionalized, civilian working-age population.” As a counter-example, average IQ at the workplace is 110. Where’s everyone under IQ90? Injured, suicide, drug addicts etc.
- twojacobtwo 7y ago
  What is the source on the average IQ at the workplace?
- thrwaway69 7y ago
  Average IQ is [1]98 and decreasing. Don't think it would be statistically possible for everyone to have 110 as IQ in workplaces. [2] For your other claims about low IQ. It is "correlated" with lower lifespan (bit different than what you claimed but causes are similar) since you didn't cite. You can find studies explaining high IQ with differences in environment or income and others point to genes. Some studies claim the choice of [3]toys your kids play with correlates to their IQ and success in life while others ask you to find a good genetic match. Depending on which camps you are in, IQ could be highly related to the poor condition of the society. * -15 points for not getting a healthy diet and regular health check ups in your childhood. * -15 points for lack of proper education, social and family structure in your childhood. * -17 points for mental health problems, unemployment, poverty and limited freedom after you become an adult. Those issues overlap with each other regardless of IQ. Although, you can argue Intelligent parents can change these outcomes and if you believe IQ is heritable, then it makes perfect sense. You can use that to explain your bias. Historically, evidence has been carefully crafted to promote products, services, aristocracy and many other things. I believe a lot happens now too with a different vector (China manipulating their averages) so I think IQ is not a good metric for looking down on people and explaining other circumstantial problems. 1] https://www.healthline.com/health/average-iq https://www.healthline.com/health/average-iq 2] https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/research-confirms-a-link-between-intelligence-and-life-expectancy/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/research-confirms... 3] https://www.parentingscience.com/intelligence.html https://www.parentingscience.com/intelligence.html

empath75 7y ago

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/n/nonfarmpayroll.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/n/nonfarmpayroll.asp

IfOnlyYouKnew 7y ago

FWIW I see "non-farm employment" rather often when anything related to unemployment happens. From what I gather, it's how all the data has been categorized forever. So while I can't give you the reasoning behind it, and don't know if it's still valid or now just being done to make the data comparable, I can assure you choosing this statistic wasn't a bad-faith attempt to manipulate.

freepor 7y ago
Farm employment has always been more informal, harder to track, and rife with illegal practices (child labor, illegal immigrants, minimum wage violations) that make reported data hard to trust/reason from.
grawprog 7y ago
Even here in Canada farm related employment is classed separately for a variety of things including taxes and employment insurance. I've never really thought much about it, but every employment related government form I've ever filled out is like that.

teclordphrack2 7y ago

Farm work much of the time is ephemeral. There is a small window for goods to be picked. There is a small window for the tractors to be up kept post or pre harvest/planting. And, as others have said it can be a paper money transaction business.