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Police take legal action against more than 180 people so far during 2019/2020 bushfire season The NSW Police Force has taken legal action against more than 180

by keanzu 7y ago

Police take legal action against more than 180 people so far during 2019/2020 bushfire season The NSW Police Force has taken legal action against more than 180 people for bushfire-related offences since late last year. Numerous bush and grass fires have impacted the state, claiming the lives of 18 people and destroying hundreds of millions of animals and livestock, thousands of homes, and more than 4.9 million hectares of land, so far this bushfire season. Since Friday 8 November 2019, legal action – which ranges from cautions through to criminal charges – has been taken against 183 people – including 40 juveniles – for 205 bushfire-related offences. Of note: 24 people have been charged over alleged deliberately-lit bushfires 53 people have had legal actions for allegedly failing to comply with a total fire ban, and 47 people have had legal actions for allegedly discarding a lighted cigarette or match on land. https://www.police.nsw.gov.au/news/news_article?sq_content_src=%2BdXJsPWh0dHBzJTNBJTJGJTJGZWJpenByZC5wb2xpY2UubnN3Lmdvdi5hdSUyRm1lZGlhJTJGODIyNjQuaHRtbCZhbGw9MQ%3D%3D https://www.police.nsw.gov.au/news/news_article?sq_content_s... Source: NSW Police official webpage

cam_l 7y ago
Great example of the kind of misinformation this article is talking about. https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/jan/08/police-contradict-claims-spread-online-exaggerating-arsons-role-in-australian-bushfires https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/jan/08/polic... edit: and you missed (as did everyone else reporting on this) the pertinent piece from that article, which suggests that none of the fires have yet been linked to any of these arrests. "Investigations into the cause, origin and overall impact of fires are continuing and since the latest State of Emergency was declared last Thursday (2 January 2020), Strike Force Tronto has provided expertise to six Police Area Commands and eight Police Districts."
- keanzu 7y ago
  Misinformation? A verbatim partial copy of the police force's official statement with a link to the original source? I'm reasonably confident that a Guardian article titled "Police contradict claims spread online exaggerating arson's role in Australian bushfires" does not consider the NSW police official website as exaggerated online claims which the police are contracting. It is a police source, if they think their own website is providing false information they can take it down.
  - cam_l 7y ago
    Yes, it is a good example of misinformation. Firstly, by the NSW police for conflating the severity of the current bushfires with the people they have arrested for arson - even though they have pointed to no-one being arrested for starting any of those fires. Secondly, by everyone reporting on this article while removing the sentence which alludes to that very fact. By your comment, did you not read the Guardian article? It expressly does consider, but did not get a response from the NSW police. The articles main argument is that these reports from police have been misused with a campaign driven in part by bots and trolls (and murdoch papers) to divert attention from the real issues. Now while I fully believe that in time we will see actual charges laid for these bushfires, as usually happens, to report numbers before there is evidence to support it is misinformation. Particularly also, as you yourself have argued further down the thread, in that arson is secondary, or at least oblique to the very real issue of increased load and increased hot, dry and windy conditions.
    - keanzu 7y ago
      > It expressly does consider, but did not get a response from the NSW police. I read the article twice, I didn't see that. Please provide the exact quote. > to report numbers before there is evidence to support it is misinformation The police state "24 people have been charged over alleged deliberately-lit bushfires" - they've reported a number of people they've charged. What evidence do you require beyond the official police statement describing how many arrests they made. An audit?
      - cam_l 7y ago
        >I read the article twice Sorry, I would not normally have suggested otherwise - I misunderstood your previous comment where you made reference to being 'reasonably confident' to the content of the article due to its title, I see now this was more rhetorical than actual. >Please provide the exact quote. "NSW police statistics show 24 individuals have been arrested for deliberately lighting bushfires during the current fire season." >What evidence do you require beyond the official police statement describing how many arrests they made. That they actually link the arson to the bushfire they have charged someone with lighting? I mean, if they charged them they have evidence right? Surely at least one of those 24 people have been charged with one of the current fires? Their comment that they are still investigating the cause of current fires suggests perhaps none of these are linked. All other reports I have seen of charges are from September through November. Why did you and everyone else reciting these stats leave the qualifying comment out? And why conflate the figures from the pre-fire season with the current fires? Why not just say that historically, nearly half of bushfires are suspected to be deliberately lit. Or better yet, 13% of bushfires have been proven historically to be deliberately lit. https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2019-11-20/bushfire-ignition-source-how-we-know/11701132 https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2019-11-20/bushfire-igni... Do the numbers show the rate of arson this fire season worse than previous ones? If it is not, then why is it being used to suggest otherwise? This is why I said this is a very good example of misinformation. It is objectively true on the face of what is reported, it produces a compelling narrative which is difficult to question if you are just skimming the news, while leaving out pertinent information that may complicate that narrative.
fooblitzky 7y ago
To put it into perspective, about 1% of the bushfires in Australia this season were caused by arson: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-11/australias-fires-reveal-arson-not-a-major-cause/11855022 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-11/australias-fires-reve...
- keanzu 7y ago
  To put it into perspective: "Only about 1 per cent of the land burnt in NSW this bushfire season can be officially attributed to arson" "Investigations into the cause, origin and overall impact of fires are continuing" - NSW police strike force Tronto So far 1% of the bushfires can be officially attributed to arson and investigations are continuing.

by keanzu 7y ago

cam_l 7y ago

Great example of the kind of misinformation this article is talking about. https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/jan/08/police-contradict-claims-spread-online-exaggerating-arsons-role-in-australian-bushfires https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/jan/08/polic... edit: and you missed (as did everyone else reporting on this) the pertinent piece from that article, which suggests that none of the fires have yet been linked to any of these arrests. "Investigations into the cause, origin and overall impact of fires are continuing and since the latest State of Emergency was declared last Thursday (2 January 2020), Strike Force Tronto has provided expertise to six Police Area Commands and eight Police Districts."

keanzu 7y ago
Misinformation? A verbatim partial copy of the police force's official statement with a link to the original source? I'm reasonably confident that a Guardian article titled "Police contradict claims spread online exaggerating arson's role in Australian bushfires" does not consider the NSW police official website as exaggerated online claims which the police are contracting. It is a police source, if they think their own website is providing false information they can take it down.
- cam_l 7y ago
  Yes, it is a good example of misinformation. Firstly, by the NSW police for conflating the severity of the current bushfires with the people they have arrested for arson - even though they have pointed to no-one being arrested for starting any of those fires. Secondly, by everyone reporting on this article while removing the sentence which alludes to that very fact. By your comment, did you not read the Guardian article? It expressly does consider, but did not get a response from the NSW police. The articles main argument is that these reports from police have been misused with a campaign driven in part by bots and trolls (and murdoch papers) to divert attention from the real issues. Now while I fully believe that in time we will see actual charges laid for these bushfires, as usually happens, to report numbers before there is evidence to support it is misinformation. Particularly also, as you yourself have argued further down the thread, in that arson is secondary, or at least oblique to the very real issue of increased load and increased hot, dry and windy conditions.
  - keanzu 7y ago
    > It expressly does consider, but did not get a response from the NSW police. I read the article twice, I didn't see that. Please provide the exact quote. > to report numbers before there is evidence to support it is misinformation The police state "24 people have been charged over alleged deliberately-lit bushfires" - they've reported a number of people they've charged. What evidence do you require beyond the official police statement describing how many arrests they made. An audit?
    - cam_l 7y ago
      >I read the article twice Sorry, I would not normally have suggested otherwise - I misunderstood your previous comment where you made reference to being 'reasonably confident' to the content of the article due to its title, I see now this was more rhetorical than actual. >Please provide the exact quote. "NSW police statistics show 24 individuals have been arrested for deliberately lighting bushfires during the current fire season." >What evidence do you require beyond the official police statement describing how many arrests they made. That they actually link the arson to the bushfire they have charged someone with lighting? I mean, if they charged them they have evidence right? Surely at least one of those 24 people have been charged with one of the current fires? Their comment that they are still investigating the cause of current fires suggests perhaps none of these are linked. All other reports I have seen of charges are from September through November. Why did you and everyone else reciting these stats leave the qualifying comment out? And why conflate the figures from the pre-fire season with the current fires? Why not just say that historically, nearly half of bushfires are suspected to be deliberately lit. Or better yet, 13% of bushfires have been proven historically to be deliberately lit. https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2019-11-20/bushfire-ignition-source-how-we-know/11701132 https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2019-11-20/bushfire-igni... Do the numbers show the rate of arson this fire season worse than previous ones? If it is not, then why is it being used to suggest otherwise? This is why I said this is a very good example of misinformation. It is objectively true on the face of what is reported, it produces a compelling narrative which is difficult to question if you are just skimming the news, while leaving out pertinent information that may complicate that narrative.

fooblitzky 7y ago

To put it into perspective, about 1% of the bushfires in Australia this season were caused by arson: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-11/australias-fires-reveal-arson-not-a-major-cause/11855022 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-11/australias-fires-reve...

keanzu 7y ago
To put it into perspective: "Only about 1 per cent of the land burnt in NSW this bushfire season can be officially attributed to arson" "Investigations into the cause, origin and overall impact of fires are continuing" - NSW police strike force Tronto So far 1% of the bushfires can be officially attributed to arson and investigations are continuing.