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I'm pretty convinced that the most important thing you can do for your career after achieving basic technical competence is to be more attractive, both physical
by anon9001 7y ago
I'm pretty convinced that the most important thing you can do for your career after achieving basic technical competence is to be more attractive, both physically and socially.
The reality is that you're going to have an easier time making connections and getting access to opportunities if you're well-mannered, sociable, and attractive.
- opportune 7y agoThis is absolutely true and applies to more than just your career. When I was fatter vs when I was in shape I’ve noticed huge differences in how strangers treat me and how much acquaintances want to get to know me.
- mmanfrin 7y agoI've been big most of my life, for a few years I managed to drop 100lbs and unfortunately gained it all back. It's staggering how differently people treat you, whether they realize it or not.
- LargeWu 7y agoAlso, be tall, that doesn't hurt.
- bb88 7y agoInteresting story about China and leg lengthening procedures. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10409409 https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&obj...
- hinkley 7y agoI have a suspicion that there may be a cultural difference in posture between the West and China. I’ve been practicing a Chinese martial art for half a decade, and in the last few years I’ve gotten incredulous looks a handful of times when I tell someone my height. I do not stand rail straight anymore, I hate shoes with lifts in them because they throw off my balance. I am in effect shorter than I was, which puts me at the high end of average in the eyes of people who are below average height (who do stand up, and don’t mind 1 inch heels).
- selimthegrim 7y agoIndia, too I’ve heard.
- 1996 7y agoNot interesting, just light on facts. It says the procedure is now banned for cosmetic reasons after a few patients were "disfigured". How where they disfigured, since the legs are as far apart as can be from the face? If it's the leg that looks ugly afterwards, can't the leg be fixed? Was there a bone problem? An infection ?? I don't think I would go that fact personally, but if there was something possible for the chest, I would seriously consider it. Pumping iron can only take you so far. The bones underneath set the actual limit.
- bb88 7y agoNo offense, but one of the weird things about HN in general is that commenters can't find apparently relatively easily google-able facts. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/dec/15/gender.uk https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/dec/15/gender.uk
- 1996 7y agoI read articles, but I don't google. Thanks for the link. > Each leg now bears eight circular scars, each half an inch in diameter, from the screws that were removed. But now, three inches taller than before, Susan says she would not hesitate to recommend the procedure to her friends. That is all I need to know. Patient satisfied, and would recommend the procedure.
- anon9001 7y agoIt's also not a bad idea to be rich, and whatever the most desirable gender and ethnicity are for your area, but those things are less actionable than social skills, fitness, and beauty.
- andrewclunn 7y agoAre you saying that trans women aren't women?
- hadiz 7y agobeauty is not achievable.
- anon9001 7y agoSure it is! Cosmetics are an enormous industry for this reason. For men, it's more about having a proper haircut, facial hair that suits your bone structure (which is kind of men's makeup), clothes that fit, and good posture. If you don't believe me, consult with some of your more attractive friends, and have yourself a makeover day to try it out. You can look like a million bucks for the cost of a haircut and a new outfit. Even if you're out of shape, you can present yourself just fine. If you're feeling really brave, doll yourself up as nicely as you can, and consult a forum (not HN) on your appearance. Reddit has a few communities that do this sort of thing. You can dial yourself in to what most people would considered "beautiful" pretty quickly if you want to do it.
- Forbo 7y agoThere's a lot of money to be made in convincing people otherwise. - Plastic surgery: ~$18B in the US in 2019 - Cosmetics: ~$55B in the US in 2019
- jelliclesfarm 7y agoI started by growing vegetables. Money pit. Then I started growing lavender and aromatics for essential oil distillation. It’s for cosmetic purposes and perfumery. Much higher margin. Go figure..people would spend more for perfume than for their food. Why? Because. Markets. It’s ok. If you work with pigs, you have to roll in pig poop. It’s already established what we do the minute we start selling..it’s only a matter of branding and marketing. I am a little lucky in that I still get to work amidst plants and nature that is my secret pleasure. It’s the selling part that I abhor. But..needs must..etc..
- heyheyhey 7y agoWell, these days, being attractive conflates with being already tall.
- jelliclesfarm 7y agohttps://news.yahoo.com/men-paying-76-000-limb-155514396.html https://news.yahoo.com/men-paying-76-000-limb-155514396.html : just read this..what a coincidence! [..] Some men and a few women are getting plastic surgery to lengthen their limbs and grow up to six inches taller. Dr. Kevin Debiparshad, founding surgeon at The LimbplastX Institute in Las Vegas, Nevada, has performed this procedure on more than 30 people since opening his practice in 2018. The two-hour, $76,000 procedure involves minor breaks in the leg bones, nails and screws, and physical therapy. It takes a full year to see the end results. Some patients may lose some athletic ability, and a psychologist previously told Insider "cosmetic procedures don't have a lasting effect on people's positive body images nor their general well-being." [..]
- ukyrgf 7y agoReminded me of https://jezebel.com/stories-about-my-brother-1835651181 https://jezebel.com/stories-about-my-brother-1835651181
- jelliclesfarm 7y agoVery sad. I am going to say something here against my better judgement. I have a genetic condition that puts me at a higher risk for DVT. It’s a not uncommon mutation called Factor V Leiden. I saw it in my 23 and me report that I ordered when 23andMe just got started. We are talking over a decade ago. There were a lot more reports than what’s given out now. I had to stop my doctors from prescribing meds and procedures because of the genetic report. I also took a definitive test that mentions the mutation in my permanent record so it is considered in the future prescriptions and I suspect this would be useful as I get older. This is where genetic tests like 23andMe can be useful. It’s not definitive but it would help to determine how to steer your health future. Having said that, privacy trumps. I do not approve of sharing personal information by companies like 23andMe and esp to drug companies and insurance companies. Also. These reports are not infallible. They keep trying to connect me with fifth cousins with whom I have less in common than I do with fruit flies. They also seem to think that I have Finnish ancestors when I can trace back my ancestry to south India for the past few centuries. It can be an imperfect ‘science’. Circling back, this young man probably could have benefitted from a genetic screening.
- yters 7y agoYes, totally. I notice a significant difference in how I'm treated, and even perceived technical proficiency, based on whether I'm in shape or not. Being well groomed also helps, but being in shape with sharply defined facial features seems the most significant thing. Losing the glasses and wearing contacts helps, too. OTOH, if I want to get by based on actual technical merits instead of outward attractiveness, then best to optimize technical and communication skills. Physical appearance comes and goes, but the latter have more staying power.
- malux85 7y agoIt not totally superficial - a good haircut, shaved face, groomed nose hair, groomed ear hair, nice, clean ironed clothes and good shoes is signalling - it’s saying “All the little things have been dealt with and I have attention to detail - and I am also wise enough to acknowledge that this is signalling and I’m willing to play the game”
- yters 7y agoTrue, and it is easier to workout for a half hour everyday and buy a nice pair of clothes, than spend hours coding and pouring through tech docs, which also works into the signaling of 'I work smarter, not harder'. OTOH, the actual engineers see through all the external signaling, which I've also discovered :) :P Or rather, the external signaling can work in the opposite direction with engineers. At any rate, the big take away is it's ultimately about signaling one way or another, and knowledge about social signaling is probably most valuable for career advancement. Which can make a person cynical about the whole thing if one don't take such insight with moderation.
- Kalium 7y ago> OTOH, the actual engineers see through all the external signaling, which I've also discovered :) :P Or rather, the external signaling can work in the opposite direction with engineers. I think it's important to disambiguate the two. People often believe themselves to be the former, when they have frequently fallen into the trap of the latter. Adopting counter-cultural signaling is not the same as being above signaling, but it's an easy thing to confuse. Especially when confusing the two is a sop to the ego.
- virtuous_signal 7y agoI wonder how this all fits in with the recent trend towards Stoicism in Silicon Valley: From Epictetus, a father of Stoicism >1. Some things are in our control and others not. Things in our control are opinion, pursuit, desire, aversion, and, in a word, whatever are our own actions. Things not in our control are body, property, reputation, command, and, in one word, whatever are not our own actions. >The things in our control are by nature free, unrestrained, unhindered; but those not in our control are weak, slavish, restrained, belonging to others. Remember, then, that if you suppose that things which are slavish by nature are also free, and that what belongs to others is your own, then you will be hindered. You will lament, you will be disturbed, and you will find fault both with gods and men. But if you suppose that only to be your own which is your own, and what belongs to others such as it really is, then no one will ever compel you or restrain you. >23. If you ever happen to turn your attention to externals, so as to wish to please anyone, be assured that you have ruined your scheme of life.
- sharadov 7y agoThe Stoicism is being dished out by the billionaires(Jack Dorsey comes to mind), who have already made it, and want to somehow appear above all worldly things to the masses.
- teh_infallible 7y agoIt seems rather disempowering to include “body” in the list of things not under your control. That control is not complete, but it exists to an extent.
- kthejoker2 7y agoHe definitely is referring more to things like disabilities and diseases, not necessarily fitness and beauty. But to his point more generally: if you can control it, do so. If you cannot, don't pretend that you can.
- ckrailo 7y agoMy understanding is that control of your own body is through your mental model of your body, not directly asking individual muscles to contract. (This is why people get phantom limb issues after amputation.) In that context, I think it makes sense to include body in the list of things not under your control (you can only control the actions you ask your body to do, not what your body actually does or the per-muscle detail of how it does it).
- wongarsu 7y agoIt follows that in any group of people equally advanced in their career, the worst dressed most socially awkward person likely has the highest skill. After all they need to balance the deficit with something to get equally far.
- sbierwagen 7y agohttps://brilliant.org/wiki/berksons-paradox/ https://brilliant.org/wiki/berksons-paradox/
- wincy 7y agoIf you're choosing a doctor, choose the one who looks like a butcher instead of the one that looks like a doctor. He's more likely to be good at what he does. Nassim Taleb talks about this concept in his books.[0] Edit: Here it is – https://medium.com/incerto/surgeons-should-notlook-like-surgeons-23b0e2cf6d52 https://medium.com/incerto/surgeons-should-notlook-like-surg...
- shrimpx 7y agoMaybe on average across many fields and job positions? But I definitely don't believe this as a universalism. The "catalog chic", gym culture and dieting trend in SV is fairly new. 20 years ago it was graybeard chic. Alan Cox was an icon. Pictures of the Google team from the 2000s are a bunch of poorly kempt nerds. And into today lots of engineering teams don't give a shit about looks and look squarely for competence. Honestly if I see an engineering team of sexy well groomed people it raises at least a bit of skepticism that these people, in addition to driving a culture of being good looking and we'll groomed, might also care about technical excellence. That's not to say that I discriminate. But whole eng teams self selecting to be sexy (and I have company profile links I could post here but I won't) raises questions about where the core emphasis is when hiring.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- monocularvision 7y agohttps://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/tv-funhouse-sexual-harassment-and-you/2751966 https://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/tv-funhouse-se...