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Is this historically different from previous instances? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushfires_in_Australia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushfires_in_Australi

Is this historically different from previous instances? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushfires_in_Australia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushfires_in_Australia Just skimming wikipedia and there are a bunch of bushfires that were bigger than this instance, and bushfires seem pretty common there

WBrad 7y ago
Keep in mind the article is talking about individual fires rather than the all the fires going on simultaneously. So far 26M acres have burned in this season and in populated areas unlike most other bushfires.
- keanzu 7y ago
  Exactly: the combination of size and proximity to populated areas makes this unusual. Unbelievably there was a bushfire in 1974/75 Central Australia which consumed ~117M hectares yet went UNNOTICED until after it burned out.
  - edzillion 7y ago
    Unnoticed by whom?
zapita 7y ago
Two things to note when looking at that list: 1. Bushfires may be more frequent in some parts of Australia than others. So two bushfires of equal size, but occuring in different regions, may not necessarily be equally common. 2. The list on Wikipedia is referring to final surface burned, after the fire is contained, or has burned out. However the 1.5M Acre figure mentioned here seems to be only the current surface burned - presumably it will continue to expand and burn more.
goodcanadian 7y ago
Bushfires are a natural part of the ecosystem in Australia. Many plants are adapted specifically to survive and thrive after bushfire conditions. However, bushfires on this scale is somewhat unprecedented. It's a bit like 5 hurricanes hitting Florida in one summer. Aren't hurricanes normal in Florida?
- markdown 7y ago
  > It's a bit like 5 hurricanes hitting Florida in one summer. Aren't hurricanes normal in Florida? Except if 3 of those hurricanes arrived before hurricane season.
  - pacala 7y ago
    ... in NewYork.
- monkeycantype 7y ago
  I'm reading that last question as irony, experience suggests others will read it as an un-ironic rhetorical question. So while recognising, what I believe is you're ironic phrasing, I'm addressing what I think will be the un-ironic reading others will take, you good with that. Yes fire is a normal part of Australian ecosystems, and it is unknown whether this spread with Eucalyptus trees or whether Eucalyptus trees spread with humans using fire. But : The Australian climate is getting hotter: http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/current/month/aus/summary.shtml http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/current/month/aus/summary.shtm... 'The national December mean temperature, 3.21 °C above average, surpassed the previous December record set in 2018 by more than a full degree.' British conquest and subsequent settlement has ended traditional indigenous fire practices in most part of the country. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire-stick_farming https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire-stick_farming Which means that the fuel load are not reduced by smaller cooler burns below levels that would feed a catastrophic fires. https://www.science.org.au/curious/earth-environment/bushfires-managing-landscapes https://www.science.org.au/curious/earth-environment/bushfir... Partisan politics has made it very difficult for many Australians to look directly at these topics. So while fire, is a terrifying but not unexpected feature of living in Australia, the scale of this year's fires are a unique horror that I believe will push enough Australians to engage with that difficulty. I think we are going to see fast significant shifts in political discussion from this, that both the emotive calls to action, and populist denials or diminishment will we perceived as a distraction from direct sober engagement of an existential threat. ( As I first typed this I accidentally capitalised that as Australian Ecosystems, because I once worked for a company by that name that did environmental work, including controlled burning)
- 7y ago
nabla9 7y ago
This is historically different because severe fire weather started early in spring. The dry hottest summer months are still ahead. I'm not sure how long this will go on? Previous severe big bushfires started much later: infographic: https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/ECEF/production/_110355606_fires_australia_history_dec31_640-3x-nc.png https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/ECEF/production/... article: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-50951043 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-50951043
- lalos 7y ago
  Australia's summer is from December to February.
  - nabla9 7y ago
    The current bushfire season started 5 September. Very early. January and February are the hottest. December and March have similar temperatures. The seasonal weather and sea temperatures have delay relative to sun.
    - glangdale 7y ago
      February is hot as hell here in Sydney. There's a long, likely dry spell to come. Any analysis of how bad the fires are historically should compare hectares burned "to this date" not "in total". As an anecdote.. We live in Sydney. My wife was talking to her father who was being evacuated from his town in Northern California due to fire. We could smell smoke in Sydney already, despite being in the opposite season.
rolltiide 7y ago
The mega bush fire was much larger and 50 years ago and therefore could not have been validation of a climate change feedback loop. So today's fires are weak ammunition for reallocations of public resources towards climate change efforts, compared to existing arguments that can't gain consensus. I can see how it isn't budging consensus. edit: removed bad news regarding arson
- elygre 7y ago
  Do you have a reliable source for the claim that “many of today’s Australia fires are arson”?
  - rolltiide 7y ago
    Well as I looked it up all of today's headlines are refuting prior days headlines about arson. So now I'm synced up.
    - glangdale 7y ago
      These headlines were only ever in dodgy conservative media sources (generally conflating people being warned for campfires, BBQs and angle grinders outside with "arsonists deliberately setting fires"). You should check the ownership of the news sources you previously used and stop reading them.
      - keanzu 7y ago
        24 people have been charged over alleged deliberately-lit bushfires 53 people have had legal actions for allegedly failing to comply with a total fire ban, and 47 people have had legal actions for allegedly discarding a lighted cigarette or match on land. https://www.police.nsw.gov.au/news/news_article?sq_content_src=%2BdXJsPWh0dHBzJTNBJTJGJTJGZWJpenByZC5wb2xpY2UubnN3Lmdvdi5hdSUyRm1lZGlhJTJGODIyNjQuaHRtbCZhbGw9MQ%3D%3D https://www.police.nsw.gov.au/news/news_article?sq_content_s... Source: NSW police official website
        7y ago
0xff00ffee 7y ago
I've seen this link pop up as a meme on conservative reddit forums for the past month, but with additional text using it to dismiss climate change. Keep in mind, Australia is huge and has different climates. While this isn't the biggest fire of all Australia, it is the biggest fire of that region in history by ~10x (according to that wikipedia link). This is highly unusual. And as a result of being in populated areas, it has done the most dollars of damage of any fire. This is what climate change advocates are pointing to: increased fires in areas that normally do not have them.
- just2043 7y ago
  Also look at the history for that page. There are frequent updates/changes and later reversions to some of these numbers. Take the measurements with a grain of salt as people edit to prove a narrative.
  - aaron_m04 7y ago
    Wouldn't the same thing happen if new information comes in about a changing situation?
  - dobleboble 7y ago
    An account with no posting history and you're pushing an anti-climate change narrative?

WBrad 7y ago

Keep in mind the article is talking about individual fires rather than the all the fires going on simultaneously. So far 26M acres have burned in this season and in populated areas unlike most other bushfires.

keanzu 7y ago
Exactly: the combination of size and proximity to populated areas makes this unusual. Unbelievably there was a bushfire in 1974/75 Central Australia which consumed ~117M hectares yet went UNNOTICED until after it burned out.
- edzillion 7y ago
  Unnoticed by whom?

zapita 7y ago

Two things to note when looking at that list: 1. Bushfires may be more frequent in some parts of Australia than others. So two bushfires of equal size, but occuring in different regions, may not necessarily be equally common. 2. The list on Wikipedia is referring to final surface burned, after the fire is contained, or has burned out. However the 1.5M Acre figure mentioned here seems to be only the current surface burned - presumably it will continue to expand and burn more.

goodcanadian 7y ago

Bushfires are a natural part of the ecosystem in Australia. Many plants are adapted specifically to survive and thrive after bushfire conditions. However, bushfires on this scale is somewhat unprecedented. It's a bit like 5 hurricanes hitting Florida in one summer. Aren't hurricanes normal in Florida?

markdown 7y ago
> It's a bit like 5 hurricanes hitting Florida in one summer. Aren't hurricanes normal in Florida? Except if 3 of those hurricanes arrived before hurricane season.
- pacala 7y ago
  ... in NewYork.
monkeycantype 7y ago
I'm reading that last question as irony, experience suggests others will read it as an un-ironic rhetorical question. So while recognising, what I believe is you're ironic phrasing, I'm addressing what I think will be the un-ironic reading others will take, you good with that. Yes fire is a normal part of Australian ecosystems, and it is unknown whether this spread with Eucalyptus trees or whether Eucalyptus trees spread with humans using fire. But : The Australian climate is getting hotter: http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/current/month/aus/summary.shtml http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/current/month/aus/summary.shtm... 'The national December mean temperature, 3.21 °C above average, surpassed the previous December record set in 2018 by more than a full degree.' British conquest and subsequent settlement has ended traditional indigenous fire practices in most part of the country. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire-stick_farming https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire-stick_farming Which means that the fuel load are not reduced by smaller cooler burns below levels that would feed a catastrophic fires. https://www.science.org.au/curious/earth-environment/bushfires-managing-landscapes https://www.science.org.au/curious/earth-environment/bushfir... Partisan politics has made it very difficult for many Australians to look directly at these topics. So while fire, is a terrifying but not unexpected feature of living in Australia, the scale of this year's fires are a unique horror that I believe will push enough Australians to engage with that difficulty. I think we are going to see fast significant shifts in political discussion from this, that both the emotive calls to action, and populist denials or diminishment will we perceived as a distraction from direct sober engagement of an existential threat. ( As I first typed this I accidentally capitalised that as Australian Ecosystems, because I once worked for a company by that name that did environmental work, including controlled burning)
7y ago

nabla9 7y ago

This is historically different because severe fire weather started early in spring. The dry hottest summer months are still ahead. I'm not sure how long this will go on? Previous severe big bushfires started much later: infographic: https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/ECEF/production/_110355606_fires_australia_history_dec31_640-3x-nc.png https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/ECEF/production/... article: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-50951043 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-50951043

lalos 7y ago
Australia's summer is from December to February.
- nabla9 7y ago
  The current bushfire season started 5 September. Very early. January and February are the hottest. December and March have similar temperatures. The seasonal weather and sea temperatures have delay relative to sun.
  - glangdale 7y ago
    February is hot as hell here in Sydney. There's a long, likely dry spell to come. Any analysis of how bad the fires are historically should compare hectares burned "to this date" not "in total". As an anecdote.. We live in Sydney. My wife was talking to her father who was being evacuated from his town in Northern California due to fire. We could smell smoke in Sydney already, despite being in the opposite season.

rolltiide 7y ago

The mega bush fire was much larger and 50 years ago and therefore could not have been validation of a climate change feedback loop. So today's fires are weak ammunition for reallocations of public resources towards climate change efforts, compared to existing arguments that can't gain consensus. I can see how it isn't budging consensus. edit: removed bad news regarding arson

elygre 7y ago
Do you have a reliable source for the claim that “many of today’s Australia fires are arson”?
- rolltiide 7y ago
  Well as I looked it up all of today's headlines are refuting prior days headlines about arson. So now I'm synced up.
  - glangdale 7y ago
    These headlines were only ever in dodgy conservative media sources (generally conflating people being warned for campfires, BBQs and angle grinders outside with "arsonists deliberately setting fires"). You should check the ownership of the news sources you previously used and stop reading them.
    - keanzu 7y ago
      24 people have been charged over alleged deliberately-lit bushfires 53 people have had legal actions for allegedly failing to comply with a total fire ban, and 47 people have had legal actions for allegedly discarding a lighted cigarette or match on land. https://www.police.nsw.gov.au/news/news_article?sq_content_src=%2BdXJsPWh0dHBzJTNBJTJGJTJGZWJpenByZC5wb2xpY2UubnN3Lmdvdi5hdSUyRm1lZGlhJTJGODIyNjQuaHRtbCZhbGw9MQ%3D%3D https://www.police.nsw.gov.au/news/news_article?sq_content_s... Source: NSW police official website
      - 7y ago

0xff00ffee 7y ago

I've seen this link pop up as a meme on conservative reddit forums for the past month, but with additional text using it to dismiss climate change. Keep in mind, Australia is huge and has different climates. While this isn't the biggest fire of all Australia, it is the biggest fire of that region in history by ~10x (according to that wikipedia link). This is highly unusual. And as a result of being in populated areas, it has done the most dollars of damage of any fire. This is what climate change advocates are pointing to: increased fires in areas that normally do not have them.

just2043 7y ago
Also look at the history for that page. There are frequent updates/changes and later reversions to some of these numbers. Take the measurements with a grain of salt as people edit to prove a narrative.
- aaron_m04 7y ago
  Wouldn't the same thing happen if new information comes in about a changing situation?
- dobleboble 7y ago
  An account with no posting history and you're pushing an anti-climate change narrative?