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> The author of the article criticizes the decision because it makes the car less fun Isn't "fun" what Mazda is known for? Their "Zoom Zoom" campaign ran for

> The author of the article criticizes the decision because it makes the car less fun Isn't "fun" what Mazda is known for? Their "Zoom Zoom" campaign ran for 14 years on the premise that Mazdas are more fun to drive. Now they're intentionally making them less fun?

eloff 7y ago
Yeah, it's a very odd choice from Mazda specifically for this reason.
empath75 7y ago
An electric Miata seems like a no brainer.
- magila 7y ago
  One of the big selling points of the Miata is it's light weight. Mazda has gone to pretty extreme lengths (for such a low priced car) to keep the weight down. A heavy battery wouldn't fit with that at all.
  - Spare_account 7y ago
    The selling point of the Miata is the handling. If they can re-create the agility (cornering) of the internal combustion Miata, the weight is secondary.
    - otherme123 7y ago
      The agility can only be done with a fine tunning of weight vs power. Mazda Miata sacrifices pure power, and thus max speed, to get "fun". If you add weight to a car you get more inertia, killing the handling and the fun. This is know since forever. Read the history of Karajan and his Porsche. He wanted a fun and sporty car tailored to him, but he didn't ask for more power. He requested less weight, and they even removed the radio, the back seats and the door handlers to get there. The only way to get the cornering and fun of the ICE Miata is to get a EV Miata that weights about the same. Then get the 50%/50% weight distribution (this is easy with EV) and there you go.
  - tomatotomato37 7y ago
    A battery is a range-weight tradeoff, so it is possible to get a light EV car; it'll just have shit range is all. While not ideal for the Miata as it still has to vaguely work like a commuter car, it's still a viable idea for a RX-derivative that leans more heavily into enthusiast territory like the Lotus Elise
    - jsight 7y ago
      Its funny you mention the RX series. I think an RX-8 like car with an electric drivetrain would actually be a lot of fun. It would weigh a few hundred pounds more, but the increase in torque and the low CG would mostly make up for it.
      - elihu 7y ago
        I'm actually working on an RX-8 conversion right now. AC motor (netgain hyper9), I'm keeping the transmission and clutch, lithium iron phosphate batteries under the car where the gas tank was and in the engine compartment. I agree that it would be great if Mazda revived the RX-8 as an electric vehicle. Especially if they kept the stickshift.
        jsight 7y ago
        Oh, that is an interesting project. I've been tempted to do something similar with an older Miata, especially after seeing a pretty decent conversion of one using Leaf packs. The RX-8 would be much more complex, IMO, but I bet it would be a lot of fun to drive as an electric. Are you blogging about your efforts somewhere? I'd love to follow them.
        elihu 7y ago
        No, I'm not blogging about it. I might write something up eventually. A Miata would likely have been an easier conversion, and it's probably what I should have done, though a convertible is kind of a tough sell when you live in Oregon and with RX-8s you can get a pretty recent car for not much money. (RX-8s with engine problems that no one wants to spend the money to fix are quite common.) One thing to be careful of is weight balance. I'm told that if you have too much weight in the back, it makes the car a lot less safe in corners because it's easier to recover from front-wheel slip, whereas if the rear wheels break loose first you'll probably spin out. So far, making battery boxes seems to be the biggest/most awkward task. I've never done welding before, and so I'm learning aluminum TIG welding. It took awhile to get the hang of it, but it's going alright now.
- newnewpdro 7y ago
  I'm waiting for it... hopefully when it does arrive it doesn't have all the touchscreen and autonomous/surveillance b.s. that seems to have become prevalent in EVs.
  - elihu 7y ago
    Mazda has said that they've decided not to have touchscreens in any of their cars going forward. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20200335 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20200335 I don't know what their stance is on built-in surveillance technology.
    - cptskippy 7y ago
      I think surveillance either via passive black box logging or active cellular reporting is the new normal going forward. From a liability perspective it's a no brainier for companies. It also affords them a lot of valuable data from an actuarial perspective with regards to supply chain, warranty, and maintenance. For the consumer the benefits are negligible, especially when that information is held private to the manufacturer.
kube-system 7y ago
Torque wasn't ever a top characteristic that made Mazdas fun. The last RX8 had 33 fewer lb-ft of torque than this EV, and the current Miata has 44 fewer. Mazdas have never been straight-line fast, but they have great handling dynamics.
- astrodust 7y ago
  They should make a Wankel electric motor just to shut people up.
Hamuko 7y ago
>Isn't "fun" what Mazda is known for? No. And the people looking to buy a compact crossover from Mazda are not looking for a fun car. In fact, no person looking for a fun car is looking at compact crossovers.
- selectodude 7y ago
  Porsche Macan is pretty small and fun.
memco 7y ago
Last year when we were looking for a new car we considered a Mazda and were told by our salesman that Mazda didn’t have an EV because EVs were not fun to drive. And they would not sell an EV until it was fun. Their commitment to this idea was very awkward. I’m honestly not not bothered as much by their decision to tune the feel of t he e car: we do this in tech all the time, but I’m confused by the spin put on their decisions as in the name of “fun”: whose definition of fun? What metrics do they use to decide what’s fun? In this case it seems fun is “same as it already is,”

eloff 7y ago

Yeah, it's a very odd choice from Mazda specifically for this reason.

empath75 7y ago

An electric Miata seems like a no brainer.

magila 7y ago
One of the big selling points of the Miata is it's light weight. Mazda has gone to pretty extreme lengths (for such a low priced car) to keep the weight down. A heavy battery wouldn't fit with that at all.
- Spare_account 7y ago
  The selling point of the Miata is the handling. If they can re-create the agility (cornering) of the internal combustion Miata, the weight is secondary.
  - otherme123 7y ago
    The agility can only be done with a fine tunning of weight vs power. Mazda Miata sacrifices pure power, and thus max speed, to get "fun". If you add weight to a car you get more inertia, killing the handling and the fun. This is know since forever. Read the history of Karajan and his Porsche. He wanted a fun and sporty car tailored to him, but he didn't ask for more power. He requested less weight, and they even removed the radio, the back seats and the door handlers to get there. The only way to get the cornering and fun of the ICE Miata is to get a EV Miata that weights about the same. Then get the 50%/50% weight distribution (this is easy with EV) and there you go.
- tomatotomato37 7y ago
  A battery is a range-weight tradeoff, so it is possible to get a light EV car; it'll just have shit range is all. While not ideal for the Miata as it still has to vaguely work like a commuter car, it's still a viable idea for a RX-derivative that leans more heavily into enthusiast territory like the Lotus Elise
  - jsight 7y ago
    Its funny you mention the RX series. I think an RX-8 like car with an electric drivetrain would actually be a lot of fun. It would weigh a few hundred pounds more, but the increase in torque and the low CG would mostly make up for it.
    - elihu 7y ago
      I'm actually working on an RX-8 conversion right now. AC motor (netgain hyper9), I'm keeping the transmission and clutch, lithium iron phosphate batteries under the car where the gas tank was and in the engine compartment. I agree that it would be great if Mazda revived the RX-8 as an electric vehicle. Especially if they kept the stickshift.
      - jsight 7y ago
        Oh, that is an interesting project. I've been tempted to do something similar with an older Miata, especially after seeing a pretty decent conversion of one using Leaf packs. The RX-8 would be much more complex, IMO, but I bet it would be a lot of fun to drive as an electric. Are you blogging about your efforts somewhere? I'd love to follow them.
        elihu 7y ago
        No, I'm not blogging about it. I might write something up eventually. A Miata would likely have been an easier conversion, and it's probably what I should have done, though a convertible is kind of a tough sell when you live in Oregon and with RX-8s you can get a pretty recent car for not much money. (RX-8s with engine problems that no one wants to spend the money to fix are quite common.) One thing to be careful of is weight balance. I'm told that if you have too much weight in the back, it makes the car a lot less safe in corners because it's easier to recover from front-wheel slip, whereas if the rear wheels break loose first you'll probably spin out. So far, making battery boxes seems to be the biggest/most awkward task. I've never done welding before, and so I'm learning aluminum TIG welding. It took awhile to get the hang of it, but it's going alright now.
newnewpdro 7y ago
I'm waiting for it... hopefully when it does arrive it doesn't have all the touchscreen and autonomous/surveillance b.s. that seems to have become prevalent in EVs.
- elihu 7y ago
  Mazda has said that they've decided not to have touchscreens in any of their cars going forward. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20200335 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20200335 I don't know what their stance is on built-in surveillance technology.
  - cptskippy 7y ago
    I think surveillance either via passive black box logging or active cellular reporting is the new normal going forward. From a liability perspective it's a no brainier for companies. It also affords them a lot of valuable data from an actuarial perspective with regards to supply chain, warranty, and maintenance. For the consumer the benefits are negligible, especially when that information is held private to the manufacturer.

kube-system 7y ago

Torque wasn't ever a top characteristic that made Mazdas fun. The last RX8 had 33 fewer lb-ft of torque than this EV, and the current Miata has 44 fewer. Mazdas have never been straight-line fast, but they have great handling dynamics.

astrodust 7y ago
They should make a Wankel electric motor just to shut people up.

Hamuko 7y ago

>Isn't "fun" what Mazda is known for? No. And the people looking to buy a compact crossover from Mazda are not looking for a fun car. In fact, no person looking for a fun car is looking at compact crossovers.

selectodude 7y ago
Porsche Macan is pretty small and fun.

memco 7y ago

Last year when we were looking for a new car we considered a Mazda and were told by our salesman that Mazda didn’t have an EV because EVs were not fun to drive. And they would not sell an EV until it was fun. Their commitment to this idea was very awkward. I’m honestly not not bothered as much by their decision to tune the feel of t he e car: we do this in tech all the time, but I’m confused by the spin put on their decisions as in the name of “fun”: whose definition of fun? What metrics do they use to decide what’s fun? In this case it seems fun is “same as it already is,”