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> Ultimately, all generosity is predicated on an expectation of reciprocity ("Do unto others..."). Not really, a billionaire donating his fortune doesn't expec

> Ultimately, all generosity is predicated on an expectation of reciprocity ("Do unto others..."). Not really, a billionaire donating his fortune doesn't expect to have that given back to him. The richest in the world would never have a hope of reciprocity

allovernow 7y ago
Yeah but how many of those billionaires donate anonymously? Also there is the self satisfaction that will always prevent any deed from being truly selfless.
- reroute1 7y ago
  Selflessness or altruism are not the same things as reciprocity.
philipov 7y ago
A billionaire that donates their fortune is buying a place in history. It's not called the Carnegie-Mellon University for nothing. Being remembered daily a hundred or more years after you die is the most valuable prize one can obtain. Wouldn't you pay billions of dollars for the closest to immortality we can get?
- reroute1 7y ago
  Maybe, but that's also not generosity with expected reciprocity. That's just buying something.
  - philipov 7y ago
    > That's just buying something. Exactly. Don't look to billionaires to inform yourself about how generosity works; they live in a completely different world.
    - reroute1 7y ago
      OK, so you've shown that sometimes billionaires donations are buying things and not really donations. But that certainly does not account for ALL billionaire donations. My argument was about RECIPROCITY, which in the billionaire example is not possible regardless of their motives. Even if some are just buying things, there's absolutely no way that every single large donation was given to buy something like a name on a building. There are countless examples of anonymous donors. Because the idea that all generosity has expected reciprocity is silly and completely unprovable. You would have to change the definition of reciprocity to include any feeling or personal satisfaction, which is completely unknowable. You could never actually prove what that donors intentions were or how they felt after, even if you think you know. And even if you could that would be a huge stretch of an argument for " expected reciprocity" and not what I was implying by the billionaire example.
- apta 7y ago
  There are many anonymous charity givers.

allovernow 7y ago

Yeah but how many of those billionaires donate anonymously? Also there is the self satisfaction that will always prevent any deed from being truly selfless.

reroute1 7y ago
Selflessness or altruism are not the same things as reciprocity.

philipov 7y ago

A billionaire that donates their fortune is buying a place in history. It's not called the Carnegie-Mellon University for nothing. Being remembered daily a hundred or more years after you die is the most valuable prize one can obtain. Wouldn't you pay billions of dollars for the closest to immortality we can get?

reroute1 7y ago
Maybe, but that's also not generosity with expected reciprocity. That's just buying something.
- philipov 7y ago
  > That's just buying something. Exactly. Don't look to billionaires to inform yourself about how generosity works; they live in a completely different world.
  - reroute1 7y ago
    OK, so you've shown that sometimes billionaires donations are buying things and not really donations. But that certainly does not account for ALL billionaire donations. My argument was about RECIPROCITY, which in the billionaire example is not possible regardless of their motives. Even if some are just buying things, there's absolutely no way that every single large donation was given to buy something like a name on a building. There are countless examples of anonymous donors. Because the idea that all generosity has expected reciprocity is silly and completely unprovable. You would have to change the definition of reciprocity to include any feeling or personal satisfaction, which is completely unknowable. You could never actually prove what that donors intentions were or how they felt after, even if you think you know. And even if you could that would be a huge stretch of an argument for " expected reciprocity" and not what I was implying by the billionaire example.
apta 7y ago
There are many anonymous charity givers.