7 ms·

VR won’t ever be more than niche because there is no way to fake tactile feedback or motion. Games need to design around this. Beat Sanger is the best selling V

by skizm 7y ago

VR won’t ever be more than niche because there is no way to fake tactile feedback or motion. Games need to design around this. Beat Sanger is the best selling VR game because your character doesn’t move and there is nothing to touch. God games, like black and white or the sims, and 4x games might work well too. Also if graphics get better people can set up virtual desk spaces and get rid of screens. Ultimately though the reason most games don’t work is the tactile feedback and motion issues, which I can’t imagine ways of solving at the moment.

falcor84 7y ago
>there is no way to fake tactile feedback or motion Why not? There are quite a few companies working on these with some success. Virtuix for example (disclosure: I'm an investor) are seeing some steady commercial success in regards to addressing motion[0]. And in terms of feedback, there's a lot of interesting work done Fl around gloves in particular, including by Apple [1]. [0] https://www.virtuix.com/ https://www.virtuix.com/ [1] https://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2020/01/apple-adds-an-optical-sensor-to-its-optical-imaging-system-and-more-to-its-haptic-feedback-vr-gaming-gloves.html https://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2020/01/apple-a...
- Fabricio20 7y ago
  On this note I also feel inclined to mention Teslasuit [0]. I recently learned about this company and their product, they are developing (I think some of it is even already available) a full-body tracking suit with feedback zones. Pairing this with a VR headset and immersion would go way up compared to most (if not all) things we have nowadays. [0] https://teslasuit.io/ https://teslasuit.io/
- skizm 7y ago
  I meant more like swinging a sword will never meet another sword. Punching someone in the face will never hurt your hand, etc. and then when you swing through air as your in-game hand stops, it feels kinda lame.
  - falcor84 7y ago
    I don't quite understand what you mean. I can come up with several different engineering approaches to make a sword controlle suddenly stop. And I can come up with even more ways to inflict mild pain (e.g. electrical stimulation). What makes you say "never"? If there are people willing to pay for better immersion, I believe the technology won't be that far behind.
    - skizm 7y ago
      How would you make a "sword" stop mid-air? A companion sword-fighting robot that mimics the movements of the enemy you're seeing? I'm not saying never, just without nano-bots and a fully mutable IRL environment to go with the headset. Electrical stimulation wouldn't stop your hand moving forward, nor would it simulate hitting something in any way (unless it was stimulating your brain's pain and motor centers I guess).
      - falcor84 7y ago
        How about this as a very early idea: start with something like the Virtuix Omni that allows the player to freely move and rotate. Add 3 thin metallic pillars surrounding the device, going up to about 2m, which would rotate with the player. At 2 different heights on each of these pillars there would be a pully controlling a slightly elastic cord via fast acting actuators. The other end of each of these ropes would be connected to the sword controller. Most of the time, there wouldn't be much tension coming from the cords (other than perhaps representing gravity pulling on the sword's mass), but when a hit needs to be simulated, the right cords would rapidly tense, according to the simulated properties of the object being hit.
kipchak 7y ago
The haptic feedback on some VR controllers (think Iphone 7 home button or switch joycons) is surprisingly good at imitating resistance or passing through something. Games with dedicated peripherals (racing wheels, flight/mech sticks) work really well too.
- skizm 7y ago
  Haptic feedback might have been the wrong phrase. I meant that there is a lack of literally anything physical to interact with despite your eyes constantly telling you otherwise. You can’t rest your arm on a table, put your hand on a wall, lock swords with an enemy, etc. You have to constantly remind yourself that what you see isn’t real so that you can stop your hand from swinging wildly in real life while your in game hand just locks in place.
  - cybwraith 7y ago
    This would actually be pretty solvable in a well-done VR arcade, but I agree that in-home true haptics are a big barrier for certain game genres and interaction types. Any direct-contact/resistance based interaction is going to feel weird and need some form of workaround that can hurt immersion. However anything with indirect interaction is generally very good (shooting arrows/guns, throwing/catching objects, etc)
    - kipchak 7y ago
      The Void experiences do a pretty good job of this, with a mix of physical props/effects like switches and heat fans and hand and body tracking. Another fun one is the skyscraper plank at VR Zone Shinjuku, complete with wobbling and a prop cat. VR Star Park is worth a look too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cML814JD09g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cML814JD09g
    - kipchak 7y ago
      Designing around it is possible in some cases too. In Gorn your weapons are floppy so it makes sense when they bend when hitting an enemy, and in Superhot VR you punch through or shatter enemies when hitting them giving more of a sense of being really powerful than hitting air.
jackbrookes 7y ago
Every video game ever made has this problem suffers from a lack of haptic feedback and gaming is still one of the biggest activities in the world.
- skizm 7y ago
  VR is the uncanny valley of immersion. Visually everything works so well that you are constantly jarred back to reality every time you try and interact with something. Traditional games work well because they require minimal movement to get what you’re thinking to happen on screen. So once you’re focused, there is not much that can happen to bring you out of it.
vrporntaway42 7y ago
Virtual reality is for more than games though. Porn is not niche.

by skizm 7y ago

falcor84 7y ago

>there is no way to fake tactile feedback or motion Why not? There are quite a few companies working on these with some success. Virtuix for example (disclosure: I'm an investor) are seeing some steady commercial success in regards to addressing motion[0]. And in terms of feedback, there's a lot of interesting work done Fl around gloves in particular, including by Apple [1]. [0] https://www.virtuix.com/ https://www.virtuix.com/ [1] https://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2020/01/apple-adds-an-optical-sensor-to-its-optical-imaging-system-and-more-to-its-haptic-feedback-vr-gaming-gloves.html https://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2020/01/apple-a...

Fabricio20 7y ago
On this note I also feel inclined to mention Teslasuit [0]. I recently learned about this company and their product, they are developing (I think some of it is even already available) a full-body tracking suit with feedback zones. Pairing this with a VR headset and immersion would go way up compared to most (if not all) things we have nowadays. [0] https://teslasuit.io/ https://teslasuit.io/
skizm 7y ago
I meant more like swinging a sword will never meet another sword. Punching someone in the face will never hurt your hand, etc. and then when you swing through air as your in-game hand stops, it feels kinda lame.
- falcor84 7y ago
  I don't quite understand what you mean. I can come up with several different engineering approaches to make a sword controlle suddenly stop. And I can come up with even more ways to inflict mild pain (e.g. electrical stimulation). What makes you say "never"? If there are people willing to pay for better immersion, I believe the technology won't be that far behind.
  - skizm 7y ago
    How would you make a "sword" stop mid-air? A companion sword-fighting robot that mimics the movements of the enemy you're seeing? I'm not saying never, just without nano-bots and a fully mutable IRL environment to go with the headset. Electrical stimulation wouldn't stop your hand moving forward, nor would it simulate hitting something in any way (unless it was stimulating your brain's pain and motor centers I guess).
    - falcor84 7y ago
      How about this as a very early idea: start with something like the Virtuix Omni that allows the player to freely move and rotate. Add 3 thin metallic pillars surrounding the device, going up to about 2m, which would rotate with the player. At 2 different heights on each of these pillars there would be a pully controlling a slightly elastic cord via fast acting actuators. The other end of each of these ropes would be connected to the sword controller. Most of the time, there wouldn't be much tension coming from the cords (other than perhaps representing gravity pulling on the sword's mass), but when a hit needs to be simulated, the right cords would rapidly tense, according to the simulated properties of the object being hit.

kipchak 7y ago

The haptic feedback on some VR controllers (think Iphone 7 home button or switch joycons) is surprisingly good at imitating resistance or passing through something. Games with dedicated peripherals (racing wheels, flight/mech sticks) work really well too.

skizm 7y ago
Haptic feedback might have been the wrong phrase. I meant that there is a lack of literally anything physical to interact with despite your eyes constantly telling you otherwise. You can’t rest your arm on a table, put your hand on a wall, lock swords with an enemy, etc. You have to constantly remind yourself that what you see isn’t real so that you can stop your hand from swinging wildly in real life while your in game hand just locks in place.
- cybwraith 7y ago
  This would actually be pretty solvable in a well-done VR arcade, but I agree that in-home true haptics are a big barrier for certain game genres and interaction types. Any direct-contact/resistance based interaction is going to feel weird and need some form of workaround that can hurt immersion. However anything with indirect interaction is generally very good (shooting arrows/guns, throwing/catching objects, etc)
  - kipchak 7y ago
    The Void experiences do a pretty good job of this, with a mix of physical props/effects like switches and heat fans and hand and body tracking. Another fun one is the skyscraper plank at VR Zone Shinjuku, complete with wobbling and a prop cat. VR Star Park is worth a look too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cML814JD09g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cML814JD09g
  - kipchak 7y ago
    Designing around it is possible in some cases too. In Gorn your weapons are floppy so it makes sense when they bend when hitting an enemy, and in Superhot VR you punch through or shatter enemies when hitting them giving more of a sense of being really powerful than hitting air.

jackbrookes 7y ago

Every video game ever made has this problem suffers from a lack of haptic feedback and gaming is still one of the biggest activities in the world.

skizm 7y ago
VR is the uncanny valley of immersion. Visually everything works so well that you are constantly jarred back to reality every time you try and interact with something. Traditional games work well because they require minimal movement to get what you’re thinking to happen on screen. So once you’re focused, there is not much that can happen to bring you out of it.

vrporntaway42 7y ago

Virtual reality is for more than games though. Porn is not niche.