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What a bunch of crock! It seems like it’d always remain too much to ask for Mark to understand things and look at the big picture for the good of everyone. IMO,

What a bunch of crock! It seems like it’d always remain too much to ask for Mark to understand things and look at the big picture for the good of everyone. IMO, this post yet again makes a good case for breaking up the company. Most of this post is about how Facebook is looking for new ways to make money, and just a few sentences about large problems like diseases or poverty. He carelessly uses words like “private” and “decentralized” in dishonest senses to mean that: a) Facebook (the company) will provide you these solutions and misname them as private and decentralized b) Facebook (the company) will still run on ads and profiling users. Augmented and virtual reality — yet another way for Facebook to surveil people. Asking for regulations as if he wants it. What he has wanted from the time Facebook has come under scrutiny by lawmakers is regulatory capture...getting laws passed in a way that prevents competitors from even trying, while Facebook can continue to claim that it’s doing its best with “independent” boards and committees and escape penalties and punishments. Anyone wanting something better for the future can only hope that Mark Zuckerberg and Sheryl Sandberg get out of running Facebook the company in any manner by 2030, if we go by wishlists by decades.

jliptzin 7y ago
Or just stop using Facebook and its products.
- newscracker 7y ago
  I wish more people would do it (though I’ve been advocating for this for a long time). The network effects are still strong, and people are loathe to try another platform that may not serve the same needs. I keep trying to push people away from WhatsApp (somewhat easily, I should say) because there are many alternatives. Instagram is tougher. The newer federated alternatives like Pixelfed aren’t there on features, and they don’t even have a mobile app yet! Facebook groups is another thing that doesn’t have a good enough replacement. In certain cases Facebook remains the best option to reach people. I’m not talking about personal messages or interactions, but about things of value to larger communities focused on social good.
- freepor 7y ago
  That just doesn’t work. If a local leather tannery is polluting my water supply, I can’t make my water clean by avoiding leather goods.
  - mav3rick 7y ago
    All hail false analogies.
- puranjay 7y ago
  They're invaluable for democracy. Right now, there are a number of anti government, pro democracy protests taking place in my country. All of them are being organized and spread via Instagram and WhatsApp
  - ncmncm 7y ago
    They are disastrous for democracy.
    - puranjay 7y ago
      It's more nuanced than that. Did WhatsApp and Facebook help elect right-wing autocrats? Yes. Are WhatsApp and Facebook also helping protestors against right-wing autocrats organize and protest? Also yes.
      - ncmncm 7y ago
        It looks to me like the balance is very, very far to the right.
        puranjay 7y ago
        True. You can convincingly argue that Facebook et al are a net negative for our society
  - JohnJamesRambo 7y ago
    Why could those not be on Signal and be actually safe due to real end-to-end encryption and no spying from Facebook? https://www.forbes.com/sites/parmyolson/2018/09/27/facebook-is-committed-to-whatsapp-encryption-but-could-bypass-it-too/#295b029a3efe https://www.forbes.com/sites/parmyolson/2018/09/27/facebook-...
    - SquishyPanda23 7y ago
      Presumably because Signal doesn't have the install base to make that realistic. I do hope that the people taking real risks are doing their most sensitive communication on something better like Signal. But for mass reach using another tool seems necessary as of now.
- peteretep 7y ago
  That's about as practical for me as giving up my local water utility as an inner-city dweller. I mean I definitely could. I can get large bottles of potable water delivered quite cheaply, and I guess I could setup a system so that that's what came out of the taps. But what I really want is for the government to intervene so I don't need to give up my local water utility, by guaranteeing minimum levels of service, and providing solid regulation.
  - Zhenya 7y ago
    I don't see which Facebook product you can't live without. Facebook? Who needs it! Whatsapp? Signal! Instagram? I don't know... Read something? How are their services like water?!
    - mewpmewp2 7y ago
      There are lots of communities and events that are organized through Facebook. Also lot of my friends are on Facebook and they organize gatherings etc through it.
      - thelittleone 7y ago
        Could you create an empty account with no personally identifiable info and use that to see events? Before deleting FB I deleted the app from phone and used browser only. If I went back it would be as a zero value profile.
        mewpmewp2 7y ago
        This is already jumping through hoops. If my friends organize birthdays they do it through private FB events and group chats, meaning I would have to still readd all the friends I have. And at that point I am sure my new account could be correlated and linked to my old account. Some groups like my local housing community I would have to explain who I am and give a huge spiel about how I deleted my Facebook account and I am actually X.
      - 7y ago
datashow 7y ago
I don't understand your attitude towards him. When I read his post, I didn't feel this way at all. It seems the problems you have with is rooted on the nature of big corporations. Basically all the big companies are doing those things, especially regulatory capture. How is replacing Mark Zuckerberg and Sheryl Sandberg with anybody else will give you a Utopia Facebook?
- untog 7y ago
  > How is replacing Mark Zuckerberg and Sheryl Sandberg with anybody else will give you a Utopia Facebook? Not to speak for the OP but the idea is that you don’t replace them, you just remove them. And use decentralised, open source solutions instead.
  - fyfy18 7y ago
    In the world as it is today, the only way that is going to happen is if someone like Facebook or Google sponsors a decentralised solution. Projects like Matrix/Riot are technically great, but that alone is not going to make regular people adopt it. They want something that's easy to use and where most of their friends are. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a free (from corporate control) and decentralised chat platform gain as much adoption as email in the next decade, but realistically I can't see that happening.
caiocaiocaio 7y ago
Do you remember when he did that BBQ ad saying he wanted to tour America and hear opinions? It looks like he might be trying to edge his way into a political career again. I like him because his uncanny valley appearance and single-minded morally-neutral totalitarianism make me feel like I'm living in some high-quality vintage science fiction.
- catalogia 7y ago
  He seems to be doing his part to make the world feel just a bit more cyberpunk, and for that I both thank him and hate him.
Causality1 7y ago
This is the guy who exploited floods that killed thousands of people in order to promote Facebook VR.
gfodor 7y ago
Any future avatar based communication system (VR/AR) needs to be open source and auditable if it’s going to mediate a large portion of human affairs and interaction. It also needs to be actually decentralized, the way the web and Internet are. We are working on it at Mozilla: hubs.mozilla.com More info here: https://github.com/mozilla/hubs-cloud/wiki/The-Web-Emergent-Metaverse https://github.com/mozilla/hubs-cloud/wiki/The-Web-Emergent-...
- freepor 7y ago
  Why is this requirement particular to AR/VR, or is it just a desire to attach this requirement onto a big tech trend?
  - sudopluto 7y ago
    Did you even read the link he posted?
  - npo9 7y ago
    Judging from his post the author believes AR/VR can provide a sense of “presence” that will recreate how we interact socially on the net. I remain skeptical, but this has been a recent argument coming from oculus devs and others in the VR/AR community.
- utopian3 7y ago
  > It also needs to be actually decentralized, the way the web and Internet are. The more you look at the web/Internet, you’ll notice it’s not as decentralized as most people believe
  - gfodor 7y ago
    agree, but it's the best example we currently have of a global scale decentralized digital network. (crypto assets aside, which aren't really a good analog to what i'm talking about here) would be happy to make a better one tho!
- Polylactic_acid 7y ago
redsymbol 7y ago
Many of the interpretations you have, and the intents and beliefs you claim Zuckerberg holds, are not evident in the article. You're coming across as someone with an intense confirmation bias. It's important that Facebook and other tech giants not be allowed to harm society in the coming decade. But an intense and emotional overreaction only makes that position seem less credible to the uninformed.
- jstepka 7y ago
  couldn't agree more. when i read Zuck's post, I thought to myself he has a solid vision on how to compete with the Chinese companies that have huge overlaps with how he thinks mobile will be used in the coming decade.
- mbesto 7y ago
  > But an intense and emotional overreaction only makes that position seem less credible to the uninformed. But haven't those same companies already proven themselves to not be credible by their actions? What happens when everyone doesn't have this reaction, we get complacent and it's too late because they've already taken control? That's not confirmation bias, that's critical thinking. > Many of the interpretations you have, and the intents and beliefs you claim Zuckerberg holds, are not evident in the article. This is like listening to Pooh bear saying he's going to eat less honey this year because he wants to lose weight without ever reading any of the books.

jliptzin 7y ago

Or just stop using Facebook and its products.

newscracker 7y ago
I wish more people would do it (though I’ve been advocating for this for a long time). The network effects are still strong, and people are loathe to try another platform that may not serve the same needs. I keep trying to push people away from WhatsApp (somewhat easily, I should say) because there are many alternatives. Instagram is tougher. The newer federated alternatives like Pixelfed aren’t there on features, and they don’t even have a mobile app yet! Facebook groups is another thing that doesn’t have a good enough replacement. In certain cases Facebook remains the best option to reach people. I’m not talking about personal messages or interactions, but about things of value to larger communities focused on social good.
freepor 7y ago
That just doesn’t work. If a local leather tannery is polluting my water supply, I can’t make my water clean by avoiding leather goods.
- mav3rick 7y ago
  All hail false analogies.
puranjay 7y ago
They're invaluable for democracy. Right now, there are a number of anti government, pro democracy protests taking place in my country. All of them are being organized and spread via Instagram and WhatsApp
- ncmncm 7y ago
  They are disastrous for democracy.
  - puranjay 7y ago
    It's more nuanced than that. Did WhatsApp and Facebook help elect right-wing autocrats? Yes. Are WhatsApp and Facebook also helping protestors against right-wing autocrats organize and protest? Also yes.
    - ncmncm 7y ago
      It looks to me like the balance is very, very far to the right.
      - puranjay 7y ago
        True. You can convincingly argue that Facebook et al are a net negative for our society
- JohnJamesRambo 7y ago
  Why could those not be on Signal and be actually safe due to real end-to-end encryption and no spying from Facebook? https://www.forbes.com/sites/parmyolson/2018/09/27/facebook-is-committed-to-whatsapp-encryption-but-could-bypass-it-too/#295b029a3efe https://www.forbes.com/sites/parmyolson/2018/09/27/facebook-...
  - SquishyPanda23 7y ago
    Presumably because Signal doesn't have the install base to make that realistic. I do hope that the people taking real risks are doing their most sensitive communication on something better like Signal. But for mass reach using another tool seems necessary as of now.
peteretep 7y ago
That's about as practical for me as giving up my local water utility as an inner-city dweller. I mean I definitely could. I can get large bottles of potable water delivered quite cheaply, and I guess I could setup a system so that that's what came out of the taps. But what I really want is for the government to intervene so I don't need to give up my local water utility, by guaranteeing minimum levels of service, and providing solid regulation.
- Zhenya 7y ago
  I don't see which Facebook product you can't live without. Facebook? Who needs it! Whatsapp? Signal! Instagram? I don't know... Read something? How are their services like water?!
  - mewpmewp2 7y ago
    There are lots of communities and events that are organized through Facebook. Also lot of my friends are on Facebook and they organize gatherings etc through it.
    - thelittleone 7y ago
      Could you create an empty account with no personally identifiable info and use that to see events? Before deleting FB I deleted the app from phone and used browser only. If I went back it would be as a zero value profile.
      - mewpmewp2 7y ago
        This is already jumping through hoops. If my friends organize birthdays they do it through private FB events and group chats, meaning I would have to still readd all the friends I have. And at that point I am sure my new account could be correlated and linked to my old account. Some groups like my local housing community I would have to explain who I am and give a huge spiel about how I deleted my Facebook account and I am actually X.
    - 7y ago

datashow 7y ago

I don't understand your attitude towards him. When I read his post, I didn't feel this way at all. It seems the problems you have with is rooted on the nature of big corporations. Basically all the big companies are doing those things, especially regulatory capture. How is replacing Mark Zuckerberg and Sheryl Sandberg with anybody else will give you a Utopia Facebook?

untog 7y ago
> How is replacing Mark Zuckerberg and Sheryl Sandberg with anybody else will give you a Utopia Facebook? Not to speak for the OP but the idea is that you don’t replace them, you just remove them. And use decentralised, open source solutions instead.
- fyfy18 7y ago
  In the world as it is today, the only way that is going to happen is if someone like Facebook or Google sponsors a decentralised solution. Projects like Matrix/Riot are technically great, but that alone is not going to make regular people adopt it. They want something that's easy to use and where most of their friends are. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a free (from corporate control) and decentralised chat platform gain as much adoption as email in the next decade, but realistically I can't see that happening.

caiocaiocaio 7y ago

Do you remember when he did that BBQ ad saying he wanted to tour America and hear opinions? It looks like he might be trying to edge his way into a political career again. I like him because his uncanny valley appearance and single-minded morally-neutral totalitarianism make me feel like I'm living in some high-quality vintage science fiction.

catalogia 7y ago
He seems to be doing his part to make the world feel just a bit more cyberpunk, and for that I both thank him and hate him.

Causality1 7y ago

This is the guy who exploited floods that killed thousands of people in order to promote Facebook VR.

gfodor 7y ago

Any future avatar based communication system (VR/AR) needs to be open source and auditable if it’s going to mediate a large portion of human affairs and interaction. It also needs to be actually decentralized, the way the web and Internet are. We are working on it at Mozilla: hubs.mozilla.com More info here: https://github.com/mozilla/hubs-cloud/wiki/The-Web-Emergent-Metaverse https://github.com/mozilla/hubs-cloud/wiki/The-Web-Emergent-...

freepor 7y ago
Why is this requirement particular to AR/VR, or is it just a desire to attach this requirement onto a big tech trend?
- sudopluto 7y ago
  Did you even read the link he posted?
- npo9 7y ago
  Judging from his post the author believes AR/VR can provide a sense of “presence” that will recreate how we interact socially on the net. I remain skeptical, but this has been a recent argument coming from oculus devs and others in the VR/AR community.
utopian3 7y ago
> It also needs to be actually decentralized, the way the web and Internet are. The more you look at the web/Internet, you’ll notice it’s not as decentralized as most people believe
- gfodor 7y ago
  agree, but it's the best example we currently have of a global scale decentralized digital network. (crypto assets aside, which aren't really a good analog to what i'm talking about here) would be happy to make a better one tho!
Polylactic_acid 7y ago

redsymbol 7y ago

Many of the interpretations you have, and the intents and beliefs you claim Zuckerberg holds, are not evident in the article. You're coming across as someone with an intense confirmation bias. It's important that Facebook and other tech giants not be allowed to harm society in the coming decade. But an intense and emotional overreaction only makes that position seem less credible to the uninformed.

jstepka 7y ago
couldn't agree more. when i read Zuck's post, I thought to myself he has a solid vision on how to compete with the Chinese companies that have huge overlaps with how he thinks mobile will be used in the coming decade.
mbesto 7y ago
> But an intense and emotional overreaction only makes that position seem less credible to the uninformed. But haven't those same companies already proven themselves to not be credible by their actions? What happens when everyone doesn't have this reaction, we get complacent and it's too late because they've already taken control? That's not confirmation bias, that's critical thinking. > Many of the interpretations you have, and the intents and beliefs you claim Zuckerberg holds, are not evident in the article. This is like listening to Pooh bear saying he's going to eat less honey this year because he wants to lose weight without ever reading any of the books.