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Because if you're told you're supposed to "make it" since birth, and you don't, you feel like a piece of shit. Marginalized communities have been told the other

Because if you're told you're supposed to "make it" since birth, and you don't, you feel like a piece of shit. Marginalized communities have been told the other story, every little thing is a win. Difference in expectations is huge, and source of all sort of bad things (like racial resentment etc...). Solution: make this country slightly less "dog eat dog" and you'll solve a LOT of social issues almost overnight.

selrumingo 7y ago
It’s not just about expectations of yourself. It might even be more about others’ expectations of you. When society says your white privilege means you have no excuse for failure, that is a hard dead end.
- bambataa 7y ago
  Does society say that? I've never come across a description of white privilege that didn't compare it to playing your life on easy mode. Sure, your life might be tough but it's less tough than it would be if you in the exact same situation and not white.
  - selrumingo 7y ago
    However you try to spin it, your point is that it is their own fault.
    - bambataa 7y ago
      Erm, no. Fault doesn't come into it.
rayiner 7y ago
Is there evidence for this? An alternative explanation is that black and Hispanic people are more likely to be religious, and religious people have lower suicide rates in the United States. They are also more likely to have kids, which also is associated with lower suicide rates.
- HarryHirsch 7y ago
  more likely to be religious That's not necessarily a contradiction, since churches double as social clubs and Christian charity means supporting your neighbour who is in trouble. So if you are active in a church you belong to a circle that is a little less dog-eat-dog. Same thing with immigrant communities.
  - derefr 7y ago
    > So if you are active in a church you belong to a circle that is a little less dog-eat-dog. That would imply that life in the US ~300 years ago, when pretty much everyone belonged to a church, was less dog-eat-dog. If anything, I would say it was the opposite. People would often shoot someone—someone who is just as likely as themselves to be a "good Christian"—just for being an interloper on their farmland, i.e. for having the opportunity (whether they took it or not) to make off with some of their turnips.
    - ctdonath 7y ago
      When you're putting tremendous direct effort into those turnips, when those turnips will likely make the difference between life & death thru the winter, when others facing bleak prospects are likely to take "the opportunity to make off with those turnips", when there is no viable/relevant police enforcement to speak of, yes you take trespass very seriously. Contrast that with the modern luxurious miracle of the $1 hamburger: with just 9 minutes of minimum-wage commodity labor, one can obtain a fresh complete meal (bread, meat, veggies, cheese) any time all year. When you’re living the latter, the gravity of the former is hard to grasp.
- dv_dt 7y ago
  We are making comments underneath a article with research for this area ..
corporate_shi11 7y ago
Using the term "marginalized communities" as a broad descriptor for people with a certain skin color in America is misguided and counterproductive. It paints a distorted view of reality and is a political statement more than anything else.
- MiroF 7y ago
  Many things are political statements, including (obviously) your comment
  - corporate_shi11 7y ago
    Yes, but people take it as if it's not, as if there is some scientific basis for calling certain groups "marginalized".
- luckydata 7y ago
  being poor and uneducated in this country IS being marginalized. I clearly stated that if you're white the expectations are different, but whatever else you're reading in my message is your projection.
P_I_Staker 7y ago
Yup, USA culture is toxic as fuck (that's not to say it's different elsewhere, just talking from experience in the US). You're expected to make money and/or have some impressive-sounding career to have "made it", or else you're a loser. I call this the "loser" class (obviously, I don't personally see them as losers, just in terms of societal expectations). You're supposed to go make money or you're a loser. Hopefully, you're "in charge of people" too, because managers and executives are the only people that contribute to society. Do-ers just cost money. You buy a house and become a homeowner to be a "real American" and not be a loser. You better get a big car and attractive partner too. I think there's a talking heads song about this. Worse, we think that all failures should be permanent. Once you become a member of this class, especially as you age, it becomes difficult to get out. What have you been doing all these years? Did you not want to sit in a cage for your entire adult life? No degree? Have you ever been fired? Have you had any issues with the law? Well, you're done. No longer a member of the "successful American" class, you're now a loser. A despised and ridiculed lesser class within society. We'll let a few losers out, and rise to the level of good American, but generally, they stay there. Don't forget that you deserve this, and it's your fault because you're a bad person. I'm not surprised by the suicide rate at all.

selrumingo 7y ago

It’s not just about expectations of yourself. It might even be more about others’ expectations of you. When society says your white privilege means you have no excuse for failure, that is a hard dead end.

bambataa 7y ago
Does society say that? I've never come across a description of white privilege that didn't compare it to playing your life on easy mode. Sure, your life might be tough but it's less tough than it would be if you in the exact same situation and not white.
- selrumingo 7y ago
  However you try to spin it, your point is that it is their own fault.
  - bambataa 7y ago
    Erm, no. Fault doesn't come into it.

rayiner 7y ago

Is there evidence for this? An alternative explanation is that black and Hispanic people are more likely to be religious, and religious people have lower suicide rates in the United States. They are also more likely to have kids, which also is associated with lower suicide rates.

HarryHirsch 7y ago
more likely to be religious That's not necessarily a contradiction, since churches double as social clubs and Christian charity means supporting your neighbour who is in trouble. So if you are active in a church you belong to a circle that is a little less dog-eat-dog. Same thing with immigrant communities.
- derefr 7y ago
  > So if you are active in a church you belong to a circle that is a little less dog-eat-dog. That would imply that life in the US ~300 years ago, when pretty much everyone belonged to a church, was less dog-eat-dog. If anything, I would say it was the opposite. People would often shoot someone—someone who is just as likely as themselves to be a "good Christian"—just for being an interloper on their farmland, i.e. for having the opportunity (whether they took it or not) to make off with some of their turnips.
  - ctdonath 7y ago
    When you're putting tremendous direct effort into those turnips, when those turnips will likely make the difference between life & death thru the winter, when others facing bleak prospects are likely to take "the opportunity to make off with those turnips", when there is no viable/relevant police enforcement to speak of, yes you take trespass very seriously. Contrast that with the modern luxurious miracle of the $1 hamburger: with just 9 minutes of minimum-wage commodity labor, one can obtain a fresh complete meal (bread, meat, veggies, cheese) any time all year. When you’re living the latter, the gravity of the former is hard to grasp.
dv_dt 7y ago
We are making comments underneath a article with research for this area ..

corporate_shi11 7y ago

Using the term "marginalized communities" as a broad descriptor for people with a certain skin color in America is misguided and counterproductive. It paints a distorted view of reality and is a political statement more than anything else.

MiroF 7y ago
Many things are political statements, including (obviously) your comment
- corporate_shi11 7y ago
  Yes, but people take it as if it's not, as if there is some scientific basis for calling certain groups "marginalized".
luckydata 7y ago
being poor and uneducated in this country IS being marginalized. I clearly stated that if you're white the expectations are different, but whatever else you're reading in my message is your projection.

P_I_Staker 7y ago

Yup, USA culture is toxic as fuck (that's not to say it's different elsewhere, just talking from experience in the US). You're expected to make money and/or have some impressive-sounding career to have "made it", or else you're a loser. I call this the "loser" class (obviously, I don't personally see them as losers, just in terms of societal expectations). You're supposed to go make money or you're a loser. Hopefully, you're "in charge of people" too, because managers and executives are the only people that contribute to society. Do-ers just cost money. You buy a house and become a homeowner to be a "real American" and not be a loser. You better get a big car and attractive partner too. I think there's a talking heads song about this. Worse, we think that all failures should be permanent. Once you become a member of this class, especially as you age, it becomes difficult to get out. What have you been doing all these years? Did you not want to sit in a cage for your entire adult life? No degree? Have you ever been fired? Have you had any issues with the law? Well, you're done. No longer a member of the "successful American" class, you're now a loser. A despised and ridiculed lesser class within society. We'll let a few losers out, and rise to the level of good American, but generally, they stay there. Don't forget that you deserve this, and it's your fault because you're a bad person. I'm not surprised by the suicide rate at all.