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Can we please stop this absurd idea of "climate change deniers". No one is denying that the climate is changing. It always have and it always will. The discus

Can we please stop this absurd idea of "climate change deniers". No one is denying that the climate is changing. It always have and it always will. The discussion is about how much, how big a problem it is, how much of it is because of us and to what extent we can/should do anything about it. That's the actual debate. Calling someone a climate change denier is a cheap and sloppy shot at trying to lump a much more complex discussion into a simple pro/con.

minikites 7y ago
It's changing a lot, it's a big problem, it's almost entirely because of humans, and we should do everything we can. https://xkcd.com/1732/ https://xkcd.com/1732/
- wolco 7y ago
  Should we do everything we can? A mass killing would reduce gases is that on the table? Let's agree to stop dealing in absolutes
  - minikites 7y ago
    It must be easy to argue with an inanimate straw-man.
- bureaucrat 7y ago
  You don't know what earth's temperature was back then. And you're comparing the "estimated average" 20,000 BCE to 1800 to "the recorded temperatures" of 1800~ with a raw graph? And "coincidentally" earth's temperature changes dramatically after 1850s? God, no wonder why some people believe strange things.
- ThomPete 7y ago
  You see that change in the dotted to solid line down in the end? Do you know why that is? That's the difference between temperature averaged over thousands of years and then suddenly measuring year over year. If you think that's a reasonable way of showing temperature changes, then I guess we have very different standards for what we consider evidence.
  - yongjik 7y ago
    Coincidentally, the title text of this famous xkcd: > [After setting your car on fire] Listen, your car's temperature has changed before. If you car is on fire, and inside temperature exceeded 70°C when all evidence points it never happened in the past 12 years you had the car, you can insist on measuring the past 24 hour average of interior temperature, because that's the granularity of past data, and claim that there is not enough evidence that anything is amiss. Or you could just... ...hell, who am I kidding, feel free to say heat is part of nature, it's what mammals crave, and increasing temperature only means your car is more comfortable.
    - ThomPete 7y ago
      What's your evidence that you wouldn't have had these spikes earlier in history? If you averaged that last part of the graph like the previous measurements it wouldn't show this spike. That's the point here. It's misleading. That doesn't mean there isn't a change in temperature.
throw0x1away 7y ago
It's just plain bullying. I'd suggest to ignore these trolls. Whole climate thing has turned into a useless political drama and scare-marketing. Impossible to have a decent conversation without being labeled as a "denier" or "ignorant" by crazy lunatics.
- dalth 7y ago
  Just the fact that we have to use throwaway accounts to discuss this goes to show the level of the debate.
- take_a_breath 7y ago
  ==Impossible to have a decent conversation without being labeled as a "denier" or "ignorant" by crazy lunatics== You manage to victimize yourself while calling others "crazy lunatics." Do you see how you are engaging in the exact activity you accuse others of?
  - throw0x1away 7y ago
    It’s called “right back at ya”, a quite effective (online only though) strategy. “Give the other cheek” and similar BS is not going to work with crazy lunatics and bullies.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
take_a_breath 7y ago
==The discussion is about how much, how big a problem it is, how much of it is because of us and to what extent we can/should do anything about it.== This is today's argument, because nobody believes yesterday's argument that nothing was changing. This line of attack is simply the pivot. I clearly remember Ted Cruz running around the 2016 primary saying the globe was not warming [1]. The President exposed it today when he claimed that climate change isn't "a hoax" or "a big scam" like he claimed in the past. Today he said he is a "big believer" in climate change [2]. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2015/03/24/ted-cruz-says-satellite-data-show-the-globe-isnt-warming-this-satellite-scientist-feels-otherwise/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/20... [2] https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-admits-climate-change-is-not-a-hoax-after-proposing-rollback-of-environmental-law https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-admits-climate-change-is...
- ThomPete 7y ago
  The problem is that the discussion has gotten completely off the rails and become politicized to a degree that makes it impossible to discuss rationally. The scientific mind is always and should always be skeptical to absolute claims like the glaciers are melting and NY is underwater soon. The "hoax" is not with regards to the climate but with regards to those who claim the glacier is melting in 2020. The media is the biggest perpetrator of all, fueling to this frenzy that not only makes people panic unnecessarily but also creates a situation where really really really dangerous decisions potentially will be taken. Yes the climate is changing as it always have, no it's not something we don't know how to deal with over the next 80 years. So lets all just chill and stop letting the media control the narrative.
  - take_a_breath 7y ago
    ==Yes the climate is changing as it always have, no it's not something we don't know how to deal with over the next 80 years.== This is the same type of false authority you claim the media to be pushing. You do not know this to be true, why would you say it? ==So lets all just chill and stop letting the media control the narrative.== Agreed. Let's let scientists control the narrative. What do they have to say?

minikites 7y ago

It's changing a lot, it's a big problem, it's almost entirely because of humans, and we should do everything we can. https://xkcd.com/1732/ https://xkcd.com/1732/

wolco 7y ago
Should we do everything we can? A mass killing would reduce gases is that on the table? Let's agree to stop dealing in absolutes
- minikites 7y ago
  It must be easy to argue with an inanimate straw-man.
bureaucrat 7y ago
You don't know what earth's temperature was back then. And you're comparing the "estimated average" 20,000 BCE to 1800 to "the recorded temperatures" of 1800~ with a raw graph? And "coincidentally" earth's temperature changes dramatically after 1850s? God, no wonder why some people believe strange things.
ThomPete 7y ago
You see that change in the dotted to solid line down in the end? Do you know why that is? That's the difference between temperature averaged over thousands of years and then suddenly measuring year over year. If you think that's a reasonable way of showing temperature changes, then I guess we have very different standards for what we consider evidence.
- yongjik 7y ago
  Coincidentally, the title text of this famous xkcd: > [After setting your car on fire] Listen, your car's temperature has changed before. If you car is on fire, and inside temperature exceeded 70°C when all evidence points it never happened in the past 12 years you had the car, you can insist on measuring the past 24 hour average of interior temperature, because that's the granularity of past data, and claim that there is not enough evidence that anything is amiss. Or you could just... ...hell, who am I kidding, feel free to say heat is part of nature, it's what mammals crave, and increasing temperature only means your car is more comfortable.
  - ThomPete 7y ago
    What's your evidence that you wouldn't have had these spikes earlier in history? If you averaged that last part of the graph like the previous measurements it wouldn't show this spike. That's the point here. It's misleading. That doesn't mean there isn't a change in temperature.

throw0x1away 7y ago

It's just plain bullying. I'd suggest to ignore these trolls. Whole climate thing has turned into a useless political drama and scare-marketing. Impossible to have a decent conversation without being labeled as a "denier" or "ignorant" by crazy lunatics.

dalth 7y ago
Just the fact that we have to use throwaway accounts to discuss this goes to show the level of the debate.
take_a_breath 7y ago
==Impossible to have a decent conversation without being labeled as a "denier" or "ignorant" by crazy lunatics== You manage to victimize yourself while calling others "crazy lunatics." Do you see how you are engaging in the exact activity you accuse others of?
- throw0x1away 7y ago
  It’s called “right back at ya”, a quite effective (online only though) strategy. “Give the other cheek” and similar BS is not going to work with crazy lunatics and bullies.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

take_a_breath 7y ago

==The discussion is about how much, how big a problem it is, how much of it is because of us and to what extent we can/should do anything about it.== This is today's argument, because nobody believes yesterday's argument that nothing was changing. This line of attack is simply the pivot. I clearly remember Ted Cruz running around the 2016 primary saying the globe was not warming [1]. The President exposed it today when he claimed that climate change isn't "a hoax" or "a big scam" like he claimed in the past. Today he said he is a "big believer" in climate change [2]. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2015/03/24/ted-cruz-says-satellite-data-show-the-globe-isnt-warming-this-satellite-scientist-feels-otherwise/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/20... [2] https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-admits-climate-change-is-not-a-hoax-after-proposing-rollback-of-environmental-law https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-admits-climate-change-is...

ThomPete 7y ago
The problem is that the discussion has gotten completely off the rails and become politicized to a degree that makes it impossible to discuss rationally. The scientific mind is always and should always be skeptical to absolute claims like the glaciers are melting and NY is underwater soon. The "hoax" is not with regards to the climate but with regards to those who claim the glacier is melting in 2020. The media is the biggest perpetrator of all, fueling to this frenzy that not only makes people panic unnecessarily but also creates a situation where really really really dangerous decisions potentially will be taken. Yes the climate is changing as it always have, no it's not something we don't know how to deal with over the next 80 years. So lets all just chill and stop letting the media control the narrative.
- take_a_breath 7y ago
  ==Yes the climate is changing as it always have, no it's not something we don't know how to deal with over the next 80 years.== This is the same type of false authority you claim the media to be pushing. You do not know this to be true, why would you say it? ==So lets all just chill and stop letting the media control the narrative.== Agreed. Let's let scientists control the narrative. What do they have to say?