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He mentioned that he didn’t think it was being maintained. It’s more or less been formed no? Has Linus not seen the work that the OpenZFS folks are doing? ZFS

He mentioned that he didn’t think it was being maintained. It’s more or less been formed no? Has Linus not seen the work that the OpenZFS folks are doing? ZFS is amazing and I would soon go to a BSD flavor with a fun set of user land utilities than give it up.

awill 7y ago
Isn't that beside the point? OpenZFS is still CDDL.
- emmp 7y ago
  I think it is besides the point for the risks of merging anything into Linux. He's right on that topic of course. But it is a separate point he made about using zfs in general, and it's certainly not correct if you take one look at the activity in the zfsonlinux project on GitHub.
throw0101a 7y ago
> He mentioned that he didn’t think it was being maintained. This news would come as a surprise to the folks at LLNL who work on ZoL: * https://github.com/zfsonlinux/zfs https://github.com/zfsonlinux/zfs * https://zfsonlinux.org/ https://zfsonlinux.org/
- mekster 7y ago
  Maybe meant not maintained by the first party?
  - throw0101a 7y ago
    ZoL is now the first-party for open sourced ZFS.
jandrese 7y ago
OpenZFS would still be in danger of a potential Oracle lawsuit.
- yjftsjthsd-h 7y ago
  For what? It's under the CDDL.
  - jandrese 7y ago
    API Infringement.
    - rleigh 7y ago
      That's not even a thing (yet). ZFS was freely relicensed under the CDDL by Sun. Oracle can do nothing to take back any of the rights granted under the terms of the licence retrospectively. They haven't got any grounds whatsoever to curtail anyone's use or modification of the ZFS code.
      - jandrese 7y ago
        It's been a thing for a decade[1] now. If you don't have a Google-sized team of lawyers handy it's a concern. Fingers crossed that Oracle loses in the end. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_v._Oracle_America https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_v._Oracle_America
        rleigh 7y ago
        Yes, but it won't be an actual thing to worry about until there's a legal precedent set. Right now, without any conclusions from the trial, it's not a problem.
akerro 7y ago
>Has Linus not seen the work that the OpenZFS folks are doing? That's what he meant by Oracle licensing issues. Java API infringement case against Google
rkagerer 7y ago
He also feels ZFS "was always more of a buzzword than anything else". Yikes.
- bayindirh 7y ago
  Honestly, I wouldn't bash him for this comment. Not everyone runs a 10+ TB array at their home for storage and backup purposes. ZFS doesn't primarily target single disks and small arrays anyway. :)
  - znpy 7y ago
    people probably will, in a few years. rotational disks are getting cheaper and cheaper, 10TB disks in two years might cost as little as 2TB disks today (i got a 2TB disk for like 50€ off Amazon).
    - bayindirh 7y ago
      > people probably will, in a few years. Yes, but without the array as you stated. We have 300+ 10TB disks at our datacenter today and, ZFS is relevant at this disk count, I/O and client load. Running ZFS at small scale is raising a cow at home for a bucket of raw milk. It's more of a fun curiosity rather than a production level operation. I'd run LVM or md or something similar at home instead of a full blown ZFS setup for practical reasons.
      - tjoff 7y ago
        I feel ZFS are much better and easier than md or LVM. At least had it been properly supported (I have never tried ZoL). CoW and cheap snapshots are game-changers, checksums as well but maybe not from a practicality and home-user standpoint. This holds just as well on PB storage as a 512 GB OS drive as a 2 GB thumb-drive (not that I would use ZFS on a thumb drive - again because of proper support across different OS).
        XorNot 7y ago
nickik 7y ago
Its pretty clear that Linus simply doesn't have a clue about ZFS. And he just exposed himself as somebody that repeats stuff he read in some linux forum or something. There is no way, after any technical evaluation by himself he would come to those conclusions.

awill 7y ago

Isn't that beside the point? OpenZFS is still CDDL.

emmp 7y ago
I think it is besides the point for the risks of merging anything into Linux. He's right on that topic of course. But it is a separate point he made about using zfs in general, and it's certainly not correct if you take one look at the activity in the zfsonlinux project on GitHub.

throw0101a 7y ago

> He mentioned that he didn’t think it was being maintained. This news would come as a surprise to the folks at LLNL who work on ZoL: * https://github.com/zfsonlinux/zfs https://github.com/zfsonlinux/zfs * https://zfsonlinux.org/ https://zfsonlinux.org/

mekster 7y ago
Maybe meant not maintained by the first party?
- throw0101a 7y ago
  ZoL is now the first-party for open sourced ZFS.

jandrese 7y ago

OpenZFS would still be in danger of a potential Oracle lawsuit.

yjftsjthsd-h 7y ago
For what? It's under the CDDL.
- jandrese 7y ago
  API Infringement.
  - rleigh 7y ago
    That's not even a thing (yet). ZFS was freely relicensed under the CDDL by Sun. Oracle can do nothing to take back any of the rights granted under the terms of the licence retrospectively. They haven't got any grounds whatsoever to curtail anyone's use or modification of the ZFS code.
    - jandrese 7y ago
      It's been a thing for a decade[1] now. If you don't have a Google-sized team of lawyers handy it's a concern. Fingers crossed that Oracle loses in the end. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_v._Oracle_America https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_v._Oracle_America
      - rleigh 7y ago
        Yes, but it won't be an actual thing to worry about until there's a legal precedent set. Right now, without any conclusions from the trial, it's not a problem.

akerro 7y ago

>Has Linus not seen the work that the OpenZFS folks are doing? That's what he meant by Oracle licensing issues. Java API infringement case against Google

rkagerer 7y ago

He also feels ZFS "was always more of a buzzword than anything else". Yikes.

bayindirh 7y ago
Honestly, I wouldn't bash him for this comment. Not everyone runs a 10+ TB array at their home for storage and backup purposes. ZFS doesn't primarily target single disks and small arrays anyway. :)
- znpy 7y ago
  people probably will, in a few years. rotational disks are getting cheaper and cheaper, 10TB disks in two years might cost as little as 2TB disks today (i got a 2TB disk for like 50€ off Amazon).
  - bayindirh 7y ago
    > people probably will, in a few years. Yes, but without the array as you stated. We have 300+ 10TB disks at our datacenter today and, ZFS is relevant at this disk count, I/O and client load. Running ZFS at small scale is raising a cow at home for a bucket of raw milk. It's more of a fun curiosity rather than a production level operation. I'd run LVM or md or something similar at home instead of a full blown ZFS setup for practical reasons.
    - tjoff 7y ago
      I feel ZFS are much better and easier than md or LVM. At least had it been properly supported (I have never tried ZoL). CoW and cheap snapshots are game-changers, checksums as well but maybe not from a practicality and home-user standpoint. This holds just as well on PB storage as a 512 GB OS drive as a 2 GB thumb-drive (not that I would use ZFS on a thumb drive - again because of proper support across different OS).
      - XorNot 7y ago

nickik 7y ago

Its pretty clear that Linus simply doesn't have a clue about ZFS. And he just exposed himself as somebody that repeats stuff he read in some linux forum or something. There is no way, after any technical evaluation by himself he would come to those conclusions.