7 ms·

my guess is an effective system of healthcare and/or UBI would decrease the suicide rate somewhat, because people wouldn't feel so helpless. I'm not sure that

my guess is an effective system of healthcare and/or UBI would decrease the suicide rate somewhat, because people wouldn't feel so helpless. I'm not sure that max wage algorithm creates a healthy incentive though. it would seem to encourage hiring more employees than necessary just to increase the executive's compensation. I think people can often tell when their job isn't really necessary and it probably doesn't feel very good.

lazyasciiart 7y ago
It doesn't encourage hiring more employees - how would that affect the average employee pay? You just have to pay more to the ones you have.
- leetcrew 7y ago
  > w/ additional 'bonus' multipliers for increasing # of U.S. hired. maybe I misread this and GP meant increasing the fraction of US employees?
  - gremlinsinc 7y ago
    I meant some claim CEO pay tied to worker might encourage layoffs. If you have 10 workers average pay 100k and you last off your lowest paid worker the average goes up, and you're paying less out of pocket. By having bonuses showing that you're not trying to game the system by laying people off it encourages job growth. That and the idea of pay cap is to ensure business growth over CEO enrichment. How does it hurt the companies bottom line if the CEO can only earn 10 Mill not 50m? When it gives 40 surplus for new devs or r and d people to grow new products and income opportunities.
- Noos 7y ago
  yeah, it would actually decrease the number of employees if employee cost is significant enough to not be absorbed by raising the price. It might also decrease it by forcing a robustness check on existing businesses. A lot of them manage but couldn't absorb a financial hit; this would be a minor crisis but one that could just push marginal businesses over the edge.
austincheney 7y ago
Suicidal ideation is a mental health illness. Financial desperation is stressful, but that stress is not an indication of mental health distress. I don’t see these two things as having any correlation and I am not aware of any related evidence adjoining those two. If finances are a factor in suicidal ideation then it’s a secondary consideration in addition to more prominent concerns.
- everly 7y ago
  I find it hard to believe that you can’t see any correlation but here you go: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24121465/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24121465/ https://www.allure.com/story/suicide-debt-link https://www.allure.com/story/suicide-debt-link
  - austincheney 7y ago
    False correlation. Take this damning quote from your second link: > Data analysis from a 2013 study published in the journal Clinical Psychology Review shows that those who died by suicide were eight times more likely to be in debt. Correlation does not imply causation. To illustrate the silliness when the related items are transposed the statement becomes absurdly false even though the logic remains identical: persons in debt are 8 times more likely to be suicidal. Nobody is claiming that because it’s preposterous and there is no such data. Stress is not a mental health illness. Having debt is also not a mental health illness.
    - madddiagnosis 7y ago
      Having debt may not be a mental health illness, but mental health illnesses are significantly exacerbated by debt. I was discharged from a mental health ward 3 weeks ago after an unsuccessful suicide attempt. My brother was murdered a year ago and I've been struggling with depression since. I lose my job a few months ago and money has been tight in my household, to the point where I began to see myself as nothing buta financial anchor weighing down my partner. Freeing her from having to manage my debts was the primary justification for my suicide attempt. My mental health illness (mixed anxiety and Depressive disorder) is not caused by debt, but the affective symptoms (in this case suicidal ideation) were. Or to put it another way: the easy way out of debt allows people to rationalize an an otherwise irrational decision. (°) https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2018/dec/03/aggressive-debt-collectors-raise-risk-of-suicide https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/201... NatCen analysed detailed NHS data about adults’ mental health undertaken for the Money and Mental Health Policy Institute. It found that 13% of people in problem debt – about 420,000 a year – think about suicide and 4% of them – more than 100,000 people – try to end their life. Suicide attempts in people with debt are around 400x more likely than those without debts (it's around .01% in the UK yearly), which surely counteracts the idea that nobody is claiming that people in debt are more likely to be suicidal? Having debt certainly isn't a mental illness, but we can't ignore the effect having debt has on people with mental illnesses. Edit: sorry for any typos or grammatical errors, my medication causes difficulties typing and recognising errors (°) Of course, it may actually be rational, since her financial security would be significantly improved by the removal of debt and the extra mouth to feed - but rationality does not necessarily imply correctness.
Frondo 7y ago
I like the incentive that a maximum wage introduces: increase the pay of your staff and subcontractors hired by your company to raise your wage ceiling. I can't see a drawback, aside from someone at that ceiling simply wanting to raise their salary without raising those working for them.

lazyasciiart 7y ago

It doesn't encourage hiring more employees - how would that affect the average employee pay? You just have to pay more to the ones you have.

leetcrew 7y ago
> w/ additional 'bonus' multipliers for increasing # of U.S. hired. maybe I misread this and GP meant increasing the fraction of US employees?
- gremlinsinc 7y ago
  I meant some claim CEO pay tied to worker might encourage layoffs. If you have 10 workers average pay 100k and you last off your lowest paid worker the average goes up, and you're paying less out of pocket. By having bonuses showing that you're not trying to game the system by laying people off it encourages job growth. That and the idea of pay cap is to ensure business growth over CEO enrichment. How does it hurt the companies bottom line if the CEO can only earn 10 Mill not 50m? When it gives 40 surplus for new devs or r and d people to grow new products and income opportunities.
Noos 7y ago
yeah, it would actually decrease the number of employees if employee cost is significant enough to not be absorbed by raising the price. It might also decrease it by forcing a robustness check on existing businesses. A lot of them manage but couldn't absorb a financial hit; this would be a minor crisis but one that could just push marginal businesses over the edge.

austincheney 7y ago

Suicidal ideation is a mental health illness. Financial desperation is stressful, but that stress is not an indication of mental health distress. I don’t see these two things as having any correlation and I am not aware of any related evidence adjoining those two. If finances are a factor in suicidal ideation then it’s a secondary consideration in addition to more prominent concerns.

everly 7y ago
I find it hard to believe that you can’t see any correlation but here you go: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24121465/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24121465/ https://www.allure.com/story/suicide-debt-link https://www.allure.com/story/suicide-debt-link
- austincheney 7y ago
  False correlation. Take this damning quote from your second link: > Data analysis from a 2013 study published in the journal Clinical Psychology Review shows that those who died by suicide were eight times more likely to be in debt. Correlation does not imply causation. To illustrate the silliness when the related items are transposed the statement becomes absurdly false even though the logic remains identical: persons in debt are 8 times more likely to be suicidal. Nobody is claiming that because it’s preposterous and there is no such data. Stress is not a mental health illness. Having debt is also not a mental health illness.
  - madddiagnosis 7y ago
    Having debt may not be a mental health illness, but mental health illnesses are significantly exacerbated by debt. I was discharged from a mental health ward 3 weeks ago after an unsuccessful suicide attempt. My brother was murdered a year ago and I've been struggling with depression since. I lose my job a few months ago and money has been tight in my household, to the point where I began to see myself as nothing buta financial anchor weighing down my partner. Freeing her from having to manage my debts was the primary justification for my suicide attempt. My mental health illness (mixed anxiety and Depressive disorder) is not caused by debt, but the affective symptoms (in this case suicidal ideation) were. Or to put it another way: the easy way out of debt allows people to rationalize an an otherwise irrational decision. (°) https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2018/dec/03/aggressive-debt-collectors-raise-risk-of-suicide https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/201... NatCen analysed detailed NHS data about adults’ mental health undertaken for the Money and Mental Health Policy Institute. It found that 13% of people in problem debt – about 420,000 a year – think about suicide and 4% of them – more than 100,000 people – try to end their life. Suicide attempts in people with debt are around 400x more likely than those without debts (it's around .01% in the UK yearly), which surely counteracts the idea that nobody is claiming that people in debt are more likely to be suicidal? Having debt certainly isn't a mental illness, but we can't ignore the effect having debt has on people with mental illnesses. Edit: sorry for any typos or grammatical errors, my medication causes difficulties typing and recognising errors (°) Of course, it may actually be rational, since her financial security would be significantly improved by the removal of debt and the extra mouth to feed - but rationality does not necessarily imply correctness.

Frondo 7y ago

I like the incentive that a maximum wage introduces: increase the pay of your staff and subcontractors hired by your company to raise your wage ceiling. I can't see a drawback, aside from someone at that ceiling simply wanting to raise their salary without raising those working for them.