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The anti competitive business practices of Apple make it hard to imagine the world could be worse. Instead of competition, Apple survives off marketing medium

The anti competitive business practices of Apple make it hard to imagine the world could be worse. Instead of competition, Apple survives off marketing medium quality products at high prices. I'm not sure how that's good for anyone unless they own Apple stock.

SllX 7y ago
If people willingly exchange currency for products from a company and are satisfied with the value that they get out of it to the point that they become repeat customers, then how can you judge that no one except stockholders are benefitting?
- hugi 7y ago
  Because Apple obviously sucks. I don't understand how hard it is for all their happy customers to understand that they suck. /s
- anoncake 7y ago
  Network/lock-in effects and negative externalities can easily have that result.
  - eckza 7y ago
    > negative externalities This is very true. macOS and the iPhone, for me, went from being "obviously the very best of the best" to "the lesser of all evils". When my 2015 rMBP finally gives up the ghost and / or when 10.13 loses compatibility with the applications I use, I have no idea what I'm going to do - probably buy another working 2015 rMBP used and pray that the Linux drivers are livable by then. I know it's ridiculous, but it helps me fall asleep at night sometimes.
    - OakNinja 7y ago
      You don’t agree on the 16” being the spiritual successor of the mid 2015 15”?
      - eckza 7y ago
        I feel like it's a huge step in the right direction, but for my own personal use: - I still have mostly USB 2.0 peripherals. I don't see that changing anytime soon. - I'm still hung up on the MagSafe adapter. - I love the form factor. The 13" display is the perfect size, for me. I could've switched to a 15" 2015 rMBP with better specs, but I hated how big it was. - I have no interest in using any version of macOS beyond 10.13, at present. I'm really glad that they brought the Esc key back, especially as a pretty serious vim user. I don't know, maybe I'm stuck in the past. I'm certain that many, many people are really enjoying the new Macbook Pro 16; I just really, really like this laptop. It's the best computer I've ever owned.
      - gurkendoktor 7y ago
        I'm in the same boat as the sibling poster (albeit with a 15" machine) and I'll add this: - The TouchBar is terrible I hope they'll bring back a non-TouchBar configuration when they release the "new" keyboard on a 13" MacBook Pro. I could live with both a 13" or 15" laptop, but right now the list of drawbacks is still 1-2 items too long.
  - SllX 7y ago
    Can? Sure. I would commend anyone that can make the case that this is the best explanation for Apple’s success as a whole though.
pwthornton 7y ago
You don't get to Apple is (large market cap, high customer satisfaction scores, high reviews in the tech press, etc.) because of marketing. If it were that easy, companies would just copy their marketing or load up on marketing and they would be successful. And a huge part of Apple's current success is based on the tech and expertise they got from NeXT. That work underpins not just laptops and desktops but phones, tablets, set-top boxes, and more.
- lmm 7y ago
  > If it were that easy, companies would just copy their marketing or load up on marketing and they would be successful. Maybe good marketing is really hard and you can't just "copy Apple"?
- generalk 7y ago
  Perhaps you only get to where Apple is with world-class marketing. Apple's iPod wasn't the first mp3 player, and it for damn sure wasn't technically superior. The iPhone was not the first smartphone, nor the first phone with a touchscreen, nor the first phone with a web browser, nor the first phone with an App Store. It arguably had a better UX than incumbents, but better UX doesn't win markets just by dint of existing. The iMac was a cute computer that couldn't run prevalent Windows software and didn't have a floppy drive. Recent MacBook Pros have an awful keyboard, not just aesthetically but with known hardware problems. I understand at long last they're reverting to an older, better design. Tech and expertise don't win just because they exist.
  - saagarjha 7y ago
    You've left out the part where Apple makes products that have user experiences that are miles ahead of whatever existed at the time.
- wutbrodo 7y ago
  I'm as reflexively inclined as many technical people to be dismissive of marketing, but I dont think you're right here. You can't "just copy" marketing in the way you can't "just copy" anything else that a company is world-class in, and good marketing can indeed build market dominance (do you think coca cola is really a vastly superior technical innovation over Pepsi?) The fact that it isn't a net good for users in most cases doesn't mean that it's trivial to do.
nl 7y ago
make it hard to imagine the world could be worse This seems like a failure of imagination. I'm not a huge Apple fan, but I lived through the Bad Old Microsoft of the '90s, and grew up on stories of IBM of the '80s. Apple is nothing like them.

SllX 7y ago

If people willingly exchange currency for products from a company and are satisfied with the value that they get out of it to the point that they become repeat customers, then how can you judge that no one except stockholders are benefitting?

hugi 7y ago
Because Apple obviously sucks. I don't understand how hard it is for all their happy customers to understand that they suck. /s
anoncake 7y ago
Network/lock-in effects and negative externalities can easily have that result.
- eckza 7y ago
  > negative externalities This is very true. macOS and the iPhone, for me, went from being "obviously the very best of the best" to "the lesser of all evils". When my 2015 rMBP finally gives up the ghost and / or when 10.13 loses compatibility with the applications I use, I have no idea what I'm going to do - probably buy another working 2015 rMBP used and pray that the Linux drivers are livable by then. I know it's ridiculous, but it helps me fall asleep at night sometimes.
  - OakNinja 7y ago
    You don’t agree on the 16” being the spiritual successor of the mid 2015 15”?
    - eckza 7y ago
      I feel like it's a huge step in the right direction, but for my own personal use: - I still have mostly USB 2.0 peripherals. I don't see that changing anytime soon. - I'm still hung up on the MagSafe adapter. - I love the form factor. The 13" display is the perfect size, for me. I could've switched to a 15" 2015 rMBP with better specs, but I hated how big it was. - I have no interest in using any version of macOS beyond 10.13, at present. I'm really glad that they brought the Esc key back, especially as a pretty serious vim user. I don't know, maybe I'm stuck in the past. I'm certain that many, many people are really enjoying the new Macbook Pro 16; I just really, really like this laptop. It's the best computer I've ever owned.
    - gurkendoktor 7y ago
      I'm in the same boat as the sibling poster (albeit with a 15" machine) and I'll add this: - The TouchBar is terrible I hope they'll bring back a non-TouchBar configuration when they release the "new" keyboard on a 13" MacBook Pro. I could live with both a 13" or 15" laptop, but right now the list of drawbacks is still 1-2 items too long.
- SllX 7y ago
  Can? Sure. I would commend anyone that can make the case that this is the best explanation for Apple’s success as a whole though.

pwthornton 7y ago

You don't get to Apple is (large market cap, high customer satisfaction scores, high reviews in the tech press, etc.) because of marketing. If it were that easy, companies would just copy their marketing or load up on marketing and they would be successful. And a huge part of Apple's current success is based on the tech and expertise they got from NeXT. That work underpins not just laptops and desktops but phones, tablets, set-top boxes, and more.

lmm 7y ago
> If it were that easy, companies would just copy their marketing or load up on marketing and they would be successful. Maybe good marketing is really hard and you can't just "copy Apple"?
generalk 7y ago
Perhaps you only get to where Apple is with world-class marketing. Apple's iPod wasn't the first mp3 player, and it for damn sure wasn't technically superior. The iPhone was not the first smartphone, nor the first phone with a touchscreen, nor the first phone with a web browser, nor the first phone with an App Store. It arguably had a better UX than incumbents, but better UX doesn't win markets just by dint of existing. The iMac was a cute computer that couldn't run prevalent Windows software and didn't have a floppy drive. Recent MacBook Pros have an awful keyboard, not just aesthetically but with known hardware problems. I understand at long last they're reverting to an older, better design. Tech and expertise don't win just because they exist.
- saagarjha 7y ago
  You've left out the part where Apple makes products that have user experiences that are miles ahead of whatever existed at the time.
wutbrodo 7y ago
I'm as reflexively inclined as many technical people to be dismissive of marketing, but I dont think you're right here. You can't "just copy" marketing in the way you can't "just copy" anything else that a company is world-class in, and good marketing can indeed build market dominance (do you think coca cola is really a vastly superior technical innovation over Pepsi?) The fact that it isn't a net good for users in most cases doesn't mean that it's trivial to do.

nl 7y ago

make it hard to imagine the world could be worse This seems like a failure of imagination. I'm not a huge Apple fan, but I lived through the Bad Old Microsoft of the '90s, and grew up on stories of IBM of the '80s. Apple is nothing like them.