4 ms·

When I was teaching myself 3D modeling for fun, I made a little blue mailbox like you'd normally see outside on American streets. Nothing fancy--it was low-poly

When I was teaching myself 3D modeling for fun, I made a little blue mailbox like you'd normally see outside on American streets. Nothing fancy--it was low-poly and lacked any text or textures. It was just a blue box on four tiny legs with a rounded top. I uploaded it to SketchFab, because why not? One day I get an email that the US Postal Service had my mailbox taken down from SketchFab via DMCA complaint. Apparently they hold at least two trademarks on the color and shape of their mailboxes. While I think my crappy art fell under fair use, it wasn't worth it to try and fight that. What really makes me angry about the whole ordeal is that the USPS is a consistent money loser. So why are they wasting cash issuing DMCA notices to 3D modelers on SketchFab?

cartoonworld 7y ago
>What really makes me angry about the whole ordeal is that the USPS is a consistent money loser. Insofar that the the USPS is a subsidized service, I don't agree that it is a money loser. Considering that the mail is the way that nearly all bills have been collected, historically, I'd say it has far more than paid for its self.
AWildC182 7y ago
Can I just point out the insanity of 3D models being subject to trademark and copyright? You can take/paint/draw a picture of a mailbox and post it but if you make a 3D model all of the sudden the legal system loses it's goddamn mind. It's been a huge issue in the video game space where companies are suing for licencing whenever someone includes something in a game, including FOSS game efforts (Honda Jet removed from Flight Gear). Why can't we just leave art alone?
- zentiggr 7y ago
  Convince companies they'll make more money by encouraging unexpected product placement, instead of defending their current income streams by any draconian measure they can devise... /s
- cabaalis 7y ago
  IANAL, but you do have to protect your trademarks from being genericized, or they can be invalidated.
  - inetknght 7y ago
    Let me just google that
- itcrowd 7y ago
  > Can I just point out the insanity of 3D models being subject to trademark and copyright? Not sure if I agree. If a song is included in a game without license, it wouldn't fly either. Designs can be copyrighted and may not be copied by others without permission. If (game) designers want to use a mailbox in a game, why not make one themselves? Why use others' work without permission?
  - StuffedParrot 7y ago
    I thought the poster was implying that the USPS was enforcing ownership even though they didn’t create or provide the content, so making your own mailbox wouldn’t help at all.
    - itcrowd 7y ago
      Yes. If I make an exact (3D model) replica of a mailbox, or analogously, a re-recording of a song that sounds exactly the same, the original designer of the mailbox or song can exert authorship rights through copyright action. The fact that you did the effort of making the mailbox in a drawing program or re-recording the song doesn't mean its suddenly free of copyright.
  - AWildC182 7y ago
    This is not what I'm saying. Stealing models byte for byte is obviously a copyright issue, as is stealing music The issue is that companies can trademark the "form" of their products and therefore demand licencing fees so no, they couldn't just make their own mailbox because USPS would attempt to sue them for violating their trademark on the shape of the mailbox. Basically, it's become a shitty way of getting a forever-patent as well as rent seeking within totally unrelated industries. Some common examples: Model a tractor and make it green -> John Deere sues you Model a car with no badges that looks vaguely like a Porsche -> Porsche sues you Model a military jet designed entirely with taxpayer money -> Lockheed Martin/Boeing/Textron/Mikoyan/Sukhoi/etc sue you Model a tube with some fins and add literally any military AGM/MIM/AIM/etc name -> Raytheon sues you Model a AR style rifle and make the filename 'm4' -> Colt sues you Mind you none of the above affect the respective industries of the listed companies.
- dwild 7y ago
  > if you make a 3D model all of the sudden the legal system loses it's goddamn mind. This isn't a proof that you can't do it, a DMCA takedown is a way to avoid going to court to prove that you can't do it. I guess you wouldn't get DMCA takedown over a drawing because it's probably clear that they would lose in court, while a 3D models hasn't been proved in court yet, thus you are less likely to want to push it to court. It's a clear abuse of power. They don't do it because they are right, they do it because they can.
rapsey 7y ago
Because not enforcing trademarks means you can lose them.
- advisedwang 7y ago
  DMCA is for copyright, not trademarks
- pacificmint 7y ago
  That’s an oft repeated myth, but it’s not quite true, certainly not as broadly as stated. From an article by the EFF: > The circumstances under which a company could actually lose a trademark—such as abandonment and genericide—are quite limited. Genericide […] is very rare […]. Courts also set a very high bar to show abandonment (usually years of total non-use). Importantly, failure to enforce a mark against every potential infringer does not show abandonment. [1] https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/11/trademark-law-does-not.. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/11/trademark-law-does-not....
lalos 7y ago
It's not that easy to qualify USPS as a money loser but a popular point that is repeated a lot. Usually the ones that promote that argument have an interest to privatize USPS and allow one of their rich donors (the ones able to acquire USPS) a license to print money.
phyzome 7y ago
To be fair, it's really cheap to issue a DMCA notice—that's even part of the problem with them, one might argue...

cartoonworld 7y ago

>What really makes me angry about the whole ordeal is that the USPS is a consistent money loser. Insofar that the the USPS is a subsidized service, I don't agree that it is a money loser. Considering that the mail is the way that nearly all bills have been collected, historically, I'd say it has far more than paid for its self.

AWildC182 7y ago

Can I just point out the insanity of 3D models being subject to trademark and copyright? You can take/paint/draw a picture of a mailbox and post it but if you make a 3D model all of the sudden the legal system loses it's goddamn mind. It's been a huge issue in the video game space where companies are suing for licencing whenever someone includes something in a game, including FOSS game efforts (Honda Jet removed from Flight Gear). Why can't we just leave art alone?

zentiggr 7y ago
Convince companies they'll make more money by encouraging unexpected product placement, instead of defending their current income streams by any draconian measure they can devise... /s
cabaalis 7y ago
IANAL, but you do have to protect your trademarks from being genericized, or they can be invalidated.
- inetknght 7y ago
  Let me just google that
itcrowd 7y ago
> Can I just point out the insanity of 3D models being subject to trademark and copyright? Not sure if I agree. If a song is included in a game without license, it wouldn't fly either. Designs can be copyrighted and may not be copied by others without permission. If (game) designers want to use a mailbox in a game, why not make one themselves? Why use others' work without permission?
- StuffedParrot 7y ago
  I thought the poster was implying that the USPS was enforcing ownership even though they didn’t create or provide the content, so making your own mailbox wouldn’t help at all.
  - itcrowd 7y ago
    Yes. If I make an exact (3D model) replica of a mailbox, or analogously, a re-recording of a song that sounds exactly the same, the original designer of the mailbox or song can exert authorship rights through copyright action. The fact that you did the effort of making the mailbox in a drawing program or re-recording the song doesn't mean its suddenly free of copyright.
- AWildC182 7y ago
  This is not what I'm saying. Stealing models byte for byte is obviously a copyright issue, as is stealing music The issue is that companies can trademark the "form" of their products and therefore demand licencing fees so no, they couldn't just make their own mailbox because USPS would attempt to sue them for violating their trademark on the shape of the mailbox. Basically, it's become a shitty way of getting a forever-patent as well as rent seeking within totally unrelated industries. Some common examples: Model a tractor and make it green -> John Deere sues you Model a car with no badges that looks vaguely like a Porsche -> Porsche sues you Model a military jet designed entirely with taxpayer money -> Lockheed Martin/Boeing/Textron/Mikoyan/Sukhoi/etc sue you Model a tube with some fins and add literally any military AGM/MIM/AIM/etc name -> Raytheon sues you Model a AR style rifle and make the filename 'm4' -> Colt sues you Mind you none of the above affect the respective industries of the listed companies.
dwild 7y ago
> if you make a 3D model all of the sudden the legal system loses it's goddamn mind. This isn't a proof that you can't do it, a DMCA takedown is a way to avoid going to court to prove that you can't do it. I guess you wouldn't get DMCA takedown over a drawing because it's probably clear that they would lose in court, while a 3D models hasn't been proved in court yet, thus you are less likely to want to push it to court. It's a clear abuse of power. They don't do it because they are right, they do it because they can.

rapsey 7y ago

Because not enforcing trademarks means you can lose them.

advisedwang 7y ago
DMCA is for copyright, not trademarks
pacificmint 7y ago
That’s an oft repeated myth, but it’s not quite true, certainly not as broadly as stated. From an article by the EFF: > The circumstances under which a company could actually lose a trademark—such as abandonment and genericide—are quite limited. Genericide […] is very rare […]. Courts also set a very high bar to show abandonment (usually years of total non-use). Importantly, failure to enforce a mark against every potential infringer does not show abandonment. [1] https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/11/trademark-law-does-not.. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/11/trademark-law-does-not....

lalos 7y ago

It's not that easy to qualify USPS as a money loser but a popular point that is repeated a lot. Usually the ones that promote that argument have an interest to privatize USPS and allow one of their rich donors (the ones able to acquire USPS) a license to print money.

phyzome 7y ago

To be fair, it's really cheap to issue a DMCA notice—that's even part of the problem with them, one might argue...