4 ms·

Actually, you didn't get it because Jean-Louis asked too much when Apple inquired.

slipheen 7y ago
The way I see it, the two are related- Microsoft stopped it from having much of a chance as an independent OS.. This stopped us from getting it outside of a major vendor like Apple acquiring it. Apple saw this, so didn't want to pay as much as they might have if it were selling well on it's own. So Apple ended up going with NeXT "instead of plan Be" as it were.
- djsumdog 7y ago
  Yep. OEMs were not allowed to sell dual-boot systems if they wanted to keep buying cheap MS licenses. I think they lost that lawsuit, but it was long after BeOS closed up their commercial operations.
  - GeekyBear 7y ago
    Didn't Be publicly offer up a free Be OS license to the first OEM willing to ship a duel boot system? When there were no takers for a free way to have your hardware stand out from the pack, it was hard to imagine a reason for every single OEM in a very crowded field to back away that didn't involve antitrust shenanigans.
    - hinkley 7y ago
      Now that you mention it, I recall this as well.
- pjmlp 7y ago
  I love how everyone blames Microsoft for what was OEMs doing a race to the bottom. OEMs had an option, yes they would had to pay more for licenses, but no one pointed them a gun, or did visits mafia style to forbid them to sell other systems.
  - dilap 7y ago
    It'd be business suicide to charge more just so they could offer an obscure OS as an option; in my mind, this is the kind of clear anticompetitive situation it'd be good to use the law to avoid. Instead the DOJ went after MS for bundling a web browser. So dumb.
    - slipheen 7y ago
      Microsoft was sued, and settled for $23M. https://www.computerweekly.com/news/2240052523/BeOS-will-live-on-as-Microsoft-settles-legal-action https://www.computerweekly.com/news/2240052523/BeOS-will-liv...
      - dilap 7y ago
        Hey, that’s neat, but too little too late! Was it just a strategic misstep for Be to not sue at the time, when it would have mattered? Why did the DOJ care about MS bundling a web browser w/ its OS but not care about MS preventing OEMs from selling any other OS than Windows? The seems wildly, clearly more anticompetitive to me! And why does no one care about this stuff anymore? Not only does iOS bundle a browser, you cannot install any other browser (you can install alternative UI frontends for webkit, but you can’t ship your own js/html etc engine). Not too mention that they can veto any software on the platform for any reason...
    - pjmlp 7y ago
      There are laws about dumping prices, beyond that it is business as usual.
  - beagle3 7y ago
    Microsoft, the incumbent, offered OEMs cheaper Windows licenses as long as there was no dual boot, or a windows license was paid for every machine sold regardless of what it ran. Under these terms, it was suicide for OEMs to offer anything except “only Windows”. I was actually working for another company whose software was killed by Microsoft by a similar “or else” threat from Microsoft at the time. Microsoft was a bully doing (likely) illegal things, except the FTC wasn’t doing its job.
dilap 7y ago
We still wouldn't have it; no way Apple w/o Steve Jobs but w/ BeOS survives.
- jackbravo 7y ago
  Who knows. Maybe BeOS also had other nice talented people working there, with good vision for products, that just needed more room and market that apple could provide. We will never know
  - dilap 7y ago
    Maybe! It’s more than just having the talent tho — you need to have a talented leader. Johnny Ive was at Apple for 5 years before Jobs showed up, without too much to show for it.
- dwmcqueen 7y ago
  Maybe. All conjecture. Had I finished my Java port (BeKaffe), the world would run on BeOs :).
- specialist 7y ago
  I mostly agree. Jobs was able to squeeze Microsoft. In a way I don't think any one else would or could. Referring to Microsoft outright stealing Apple's IP and Gates' subsequent settlement. The $150m investment. The commitment to maintain Office on Mac. Forever license to all of Microsoft's API, enabling Mail.app to have pretty great integration with Exchange, for example. BeOS was probably the better tech. But Jobs had the better strategies and the better team. Compare this to Jonathan Schwartz cotemporaneous mismanagement of Sun's amazing IP, snatching defeat out of the jaws of victory. Schwartz just wasn't a bare knuckled brawler like Jobs.
  - hinkley 7y ago
    Schwartz was an odd duck in charge if another odd duck. His writing was a good read, but it was a little odd to see such antiestablishment talk from an establishment player. And in the near term, his own establishment suffered the most. I used the hell out of Java, but most of their other tech was in the weird quadrant of cool stuff that I won’t use. Something about their fit and finish always left me cold. Or if not that, price point.

The way I see it, the two are related- Microsoft stopped it from having much of a chance as an independent OS.. This stopped us from getting it outside of a major vendor like Apple acquiring it. Apple saw this, so didn't want to pay as much as they might have if it were selling well on it's own. So Apple ended up going with NeXT "instead of plan Be" as it were.

djsumdog 7y ago
Yep. OEMs were not allowed to sell dual-boot systems if they wanted to keep buying cheap MS licenses. I think they lost that lawsuit, but it was long after BeOS closed up their commercial operations.
- GeekyBear 7y ago
  Didn't Be publicly offer up a free Be OS license to the first OEM willing to ship a duel boot system? When there were no takers for a free way to have your hardware stand out from the pack, it was hard to imagine a reason for every single OEM in a very crowded field to back away that didn't involve antitrust shenanigans.
  - hinkley 7y ago
    Now that you mention it, I recall this as well.
pjmlp 7y ago
I love how everyone blames Microsoft for what was OEMs doing a race to the bottom. OEMs had an option, yes they would had to pay more for licenses, but no one pointed them a gun, or did visits mafia style to forbid them to sell other systems.
- dilap 7y ago
  It'd be business suicide to charge more just so they could offer an obscure OS as an option; in my mind, this is the kind of clear anticompetitive situation it'd be good to use the law to avoid. Instead the DOJ went after MS for bundling a web browser. So dumb.
  - slipheen 7y ago
    Microsoft was sued, and settled for $23M. https://www.computerweekly.com/news/2240052523/BeOS-will-live-on-as-Microsoft-settles-legal-action https://www.computerweekly.com/news/2240052523/BeOS-will-liv...
    - dilap 7y ago
      Hey, that’s neat, but too little too late! Was it just a strategic misstep for Be to not sue at the time, when it would have mattered? Why did the DOJ care about MS bundling a web browser w/ its OS but not care about MS preventing OEMs from selling any other OS than Windows? The seems wildly, clearly more anticompetitive to me! And why does no one care about this stuff anymore? Not only does iOS bundle a browser, you cannot install any other browser (you can install alternative UI frontends for webkit, but you can’t ship your own js/html etc engine). Not too mention that they can veto any software on the platform for any reason...
  - pjmlp 7y ago
    There are laws about dumping prices, beyond that it is business as usual.
- beagle3 7y ago
  Microsoft, the incumbent, offered OEMs cheaper Windows licenses as long as there was no dual boot, or a windows license was paid for every machine sold regardless of what it ran. Under these terms, it was suicide for OEMs to offer anything except “only Windows”. I was actually working for another company whose software was killed by Microsoft by a similar “or else” threat from Microsoft at the time. Microsoft was a bully doing (likely) illegal things, except the FTC wasn’t doing its job.

dilap 7y ago

We still wouldn't have it; no way Apple w/o Steve Jobs but w/ BeOS survives.

jackbravo 7y ago
Who knows. Maybe BeOS also had other nice talented people working there, with good vision for products, that just needed more room and market that apple could provide. We will never know
- dilap 7y ago
  Maybe! It’s more than just having the talent tho — you need to have a talented leader. Johnny Ive was at Apple for 5 years before Jobs showed up, without too much to show for it.
dwmcqueen 7y ago
Maybe. All conjecture. Had I finished my Java port (BeKaffe), the world would run on BeOs :).
specialist 7y ago
I mostly agree. Jobs was able to squeeze Microsoft. In a way I don't think any one else would or could. Referring to Microsoft outright stealing Apple's IP and Gates' subsequent settlement. The $150m investment. The commitment to maintain Office on Mac. Forever license to all of Microsoft's API, enabling Mail.app to have pretty great integration with Exchange, for example. BeOS was probably the better tech. But Jobs had the better strategies and the better team. Compare this to Jonathan Schwartz cotemporaneous mismanagement of Sun's amazing IP, snatching defeat out of the jaws of victory. Schwartz just wasn't a bare knuckled brawler like Jobs.
- hinkley 7y ago
  Schwartz was an odd duck in charge if another odd duck. His writing was a good read, but it was a little odd to see such antiestablishment talk from an establishment player. And in the near term, his own establishment suffered the most. I used the hell out of Java, but most of their other tech was in the weird quadrant of cool stuff that I won’t use. Something about their fit and finish always left me cold. Or if not that, price point.