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People do not protect harassers. People protect their own jobs and status. Let someone unimportant to have the same behaviour and it will land in prison. It is

People do not protect harassers. People protect their own jobs and status. Let someone unimportant to have the same behaviour and it will land in prison. It is the system that rewards the people protecting the harassers. Think about Human Resources in your company. Do they work for the employees, for the company or for upper management? I have seen upper management abusing their positions while damaging people and projects alike. And Human Resources have always protected them. The few times that is not like that, the person that tries to fix the situation get silently fired. We should request from people to NOT protect famous/important/rich harassers. But, we also need to change the system to make sure that they are not protected by people looking for a reward. Without changing the system we are doomed to continue suffering these behaviours.

goto11 7y ago
Yes and no - you will often see people trivialize or make excuses for harassers even if there is noting on the line for themselves. Nobody is scared of Asimov since he is long dead, but just look in this comment section.
- krapp 7y ago
  See: Richard Stallman. edit: there is a causal chain between the sexist and racist dimension of early SF/F fandom, the cult of personality around Richard Stallman, and the tolerance for and excusing of sexism and sexual assault in modern tech culture. While I expect to be downvoted for even bringing it up, because it's a live wire of HN identity politics, I hope some people will at least consider that these things are not unrelated.
  - goto11 7y ago
    > While I expect to be downvoted for even bringing it up Regardless of the merit of a comment, I downvote on principle when being baited like this.
    - krapp 7y ago
      Your reaction to "bait" is to always bite the hook on principle? Good to know, I guess.
      - ses1984 7y ago
        The idea is to discourage users from setting the bait in the first place, it's not great comment etiquette. Just never say you expect to be down voted.
        krapp 7y ago
        The idea should be to discourage petty and arbitrary downvoting. That also isn't great comment etiquette, and it's far more corrosive to discourse than discussing downvotes, yet it's encouraged here.
- javajosh 7y ago
  You're right, people protect more than their job; they protect their ideologies, too. There's an interesting story about the early Buddhist monks who, while the Buddha was alive, would squabble and fight over "right view". So, even after giving up almost everything, they were still attached! The Buddha, in classic Buddha way, responded by walking into the forest to meditate alone. Personally, I wish we'd all just relax and realize what assholes we ALL are, each and every one. There are no exceptions.
  - Psyladine 7y ago
    I'd go further, people protect their identities, which includes whatever ideologies & personal facets of themselves they've codified. Where one person shrugs when a family member is insulted, another might come to blows to protect an idea of family. It's cultural, economic and political...it's belief.
dadarepublic 7y ago
This is a good thread if just for highlighting how people will protect famous/rich/important harassers and abusers if it serves their sense of "self" in some way - whether it be attached to career, ideology, fandom, "coolness", etc. or if it be because of some form of kompromat.

goto11 7y ago

Yes and no - you will often see people trivialize or make excuses for harassers even if there is noting on the line for themselves. Nobody is scared of Asimov since he is long dead, but just look in this comment section.

krapp 7y ago
See: Richard Stallman. edit: there is a causal chain between the sexist and racist dimension of early SF/F fandom, the cult of personality around Richard Stallman, and the tolerance for and excusing of sexism and sexual assault in modern tech culture. While I expect to be downvoted for even bringing it up, because it's a live wire of HN identity politics, I hope some people will at least consider that these things are not unrelated.
- goto11 7y ago
  > While I expect to be downvoted for even bringing it up Regardless of the merit of a comment, I downvote on principle when being baited like this.
  - krapp 7y ago
    Your reaction to "bait" is to always bite the hook on principle? Good to know, I guess.
    - ses1984 7y ago
      The idea is to discourage users from setting the bait in the first place, it's not great comment etiquette. Just never say you expect to be down voted.
      - krapp 7y ago
        The idea should be to discourage petty and arbitrary downvoting. That also isn't great comment etiquette, and it's far more corrosive to discourse than discussing downvotes, yet it's encouraged here.
javajosh 7y ago
You're right, people protect more than their job; they protect their ideologies, too. There's an interesting story about the early Buddhist monks who, while the Buddha was alive, would squabble and fight over "right view". So, even after giving up almost everything, they were still attached! The Buddha, in classic Buddha way, responded by walking into the forest to meditate alone. Personally, I wish we'd all just relax and realize what assholes we ALL are, each and every one. There are no exceptions.
- Psyladine 7y ago
  I'd go further, people protect their identities, which includes whatever ideologies & personal facets of themselves they've codified. Where one person shrugs when a family member is insulted, another might come to blows to protect an idea of family. It's cultural, economic and political...it's belief.

dadarepublic 7y ago

This is a good thread if just for highlighting how people will protect famous/rich/important harassers and abusers if it serves their sense of "self" in some way - whether it be attached to career, ideology, fandom, "coolness", etc. or if it be because of some form of kompromat.