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Mob justice benefits no one in the long run. Hypocritical mob justice is the worst of it's kind. It simultaneously enrages one side against another while claim

Mob justice benefits no one in the long run. Hypocritical mob justice is the worst of it's kind. It simultaneously enrages one side against another while claiming it's actions are justified by it's own group, but no other group can act the same. The accused should be taken to court. But mobs don't like court, they want a lynching.

eesmith 7y ago
Mob-whitewashing, to coin a term, is also terrible. We cannot seriously talk about Columbus-the-brave-explorer without also talking about his acts of slavery and genocide. We cannot take Asimov to court. We cannot take Columbus to court. But we can talk about them as real people, and look at their entire history, rather than as a single facet of their lives.
- RobertRoberts 7y ago
  It seems we have two separate issues. Mob justice against the living vs the dead. Mobs are still mobs. It's socially justified insanity. They will remove Asimov books from libraries now, just wait. If we did the same for every author there would zero books left except propaganda from the controlling mob. Asimov is obviously wrong, but mobs don't want a reasonable solution, they want blood.
  - krapp 7y ago
    >They will remove Asimov books from libraries now, just wait. If we did the same for every author there would zero books left except propaganda from the controlling mob. They're going to remove all of Asimov's books from libraries now because someone wrote an article about his behavior, despite that behavior being known about for decades, and not exactly uncommon within the community? Please stop with the pearl-clutching concern trolling. There's no "propaganda from the controlling mob," no one is out for blood, no one is burning books en masse because mob justice.
    - cousin_it 7y ago
      I'll never forget how, when MIT removed Walter Lewin's widely loved lectures after undisclosed accusations, people on HN were agreeing with that decision because "hitting a physicist right in his legacy" is apparently the best way to teach him.
      - krapp 7y ago
        Sorry, I'm not made of straw, your attempt to expose what you believe to be my hypocrisy and secret book-burning agenda has failed.
      - eesmith 7y ago
        Well, that was ignorant of those HN readers. It's not like Lewin couldn't host his own lectures. Like on his YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiEHVhv0SBMpP75JbzJShqw https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiEHVhv0SBMpP75JbzJShqw , where you can watch them right now. When you write "undisclosed accusations", you mean that in addition to the disclosed ones, right? https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015/01/23/complainant-unprecedented-walter-lewin-sexual-harassment-case-comes-forward https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015/01/23/complainant-u... describes Faïza Harbi's accusations. > It would take almost a year before Harbi, with the help of MIT’s investigators, said she came to understand that Lewin’s interest in her was not motivated by empathy, and that their first conversations included inappropriate language. Shortly after contacting her, Harbi said, Lewin quickly moved their friendship into uncomfortable territory, and she was pushed to participate in online sexual role-playing and send naked pictures and videos of herself. After about 10 months, Harbi said, she resumed self-mutilating after seven years of not doing so.
        cousin_it 7y ago
        You're right on the second point, I misremembered. On the first point, I agree with Scott Aaronson's position in this post and comments: https://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=2091 https://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=2091
        7y ago
  - eesmith 7y ago
    The "mob" you see is a figment of your imagination. If it were real, why is Lovecraft still on library shelves? Lovecraft is sure to go first. If it were real, can you point out any of them?
  - mercurysmessage 7y ago
    You're writing this as if courts and justice systems are perfect, when they often fail women, and victims of sexual assault. Many things in the past have been legal that shouldn't have been. And many people have gotten away with wrong things, like Asimov. So you think we should ignore the historical truth, the people he harmed? I absolutely disagree. We can't even talk about the harms people caused without "mobs" getting mad about the conversation.
whack 7y ago
How on earth would you take a dead man to court? And how do you take someone to court for "being an asshole"? If you knew someone who is constantly doing extremely shady things, like screwing over their business partners or repeatedly cheating on their spouses, there's no way to "take someone to court" on those counts. Does that mean their shady dealings should never be exposed?
- RobertRoberts 7y ago
  How do you get justice by accusing those that can't respond? True justice requires a defence, even if you don't like it.

eesmith 7y ago

Mob-whitewashing, to coin a term, is also terrible. We cannot seriously talk about Columbus-the-brave-explorer without also talking about his acts of slavery and genocide. We cannot take Asimov to court. We cannot take Columbus to court. But we can talk about them as real people, and look at their entire history, rather than as a single facet of their lives.

RobertRoberts 7y ago
It seems we have two separate issues. Mob justice against the living vs the dead. Mobs are still mobs. It's socially justified insanity. They will remove Asimov books from libraries now, just wait. If we did the same for every author there would zero books left except propaganda from the controlling mob. Asimov is obviously wrong, but mobs don't want a reasonable solution, they want blood.
- krapp 7y ago
  >They will remove Asimov books from libraries now, just wait. If we did the same for every author there would zero books left except propaganda from the controlling mob. They're going to remove all of Asimov's books from libraries now because someone wrote an article about his behavior, despite that behavior being known about for decades, and not exactly uncommon within the community? Please stop with the pearl-clutching concern trolling. There's no "propaganda from the controlling mob," no one is out for blood, no one is burning books en masse because mob justice.
  - cousin_it 7y ago
    I'll never forget how, when MIT removed Walter Lewin's widely loved lectures after undisclosed accusations, people on HN were agreeing with that decision because "hitting a physicist right in his legacy" is apparently the best way to teach him.
    - krapp 7y ago
      Sorry, I'm not made of straw, your attempt to expose what you believe to be my hypocrisy and secret book-burning agenda has failed.
    - eesmith 7y ago
      Well, that was ignorant of those HN readers. It's not like Lewin couldn't host his own lectures. Like on his YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiEHVhv0SBMpP75JbzJShqw https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiEHVhv0SBMpP75JbzJShqw , where you can watch them right now. When you write "undisclosed accusations", you mean that in addition to the disclosed ones, right? https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015/01/23/complainant-unprecedented-walter-lewin-sexual-harassment-case-comes-forward https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015/01/23/complainant-u... describes Faïza Harbi's accusations. > It would take almost a year before Harbi, with the help of MIT’s investigators, said she came to understand that Lewin’s interest in her was not motivated by empathy, and that their first conversations included inappropriate language. Shortly after contacting her, Harbi said, Lewin quickly moved their friendship into uncomfortable territory, and she was pushed to participate in online sexual role-playing and send naked pictures and videos of herself. After about 10 months, Harbi said, she resumed self-mutilating after seven years of not doing so.
      - cousin_it 7y ago
        You're right on the second point, I misremembered. On the first point, I agree with Scott Aaronson's position in this post and comments: https://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=2091 https://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=2091
        7y ago
- eesmith 7y ago
  The "mob" you see is a figment of your imagination. If it were real, why is Lovecraft still on library shelves? Lovecraft is sure to go first. If it were real, can you point out any of them?
- mercurysmessage 7y ago
  You're writing this as if courts and justice systems are perfect, when they often fail women, and victims of sexual assault. Many things in the past have been legal that shouldn't have been. And many people have gotten away with wrong things, like Asimov. So you think we should ignore the historical truth, the people he harmed? I absolutely disagree. We can't even talk about the harms people caused without "mobs" getting mad about the conversation.

whack 7y ago

How on earth would you take a dead man to court? And how do you take someone to court for "being an asshole"? If you knew someone who is constantly doing extremely shady things, like screwing over their business partners or repeatedly cheating on their spouses, there's no way to "take someone to court" on those counts. Does that mean their shady dealings should never be exposed?

RobertRoberts 7y ago
How do you get justice by accusing those that can't respond? True justice requires a defence, even if you don't like it.