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Last year there was a discovery where some single cell organisms were extracting electrons directly from solid rock. So I don’t think ice is a barrier. I do ag

Last year there was a discovery where some single cell organisms were extracting electrons directly from solid rock. So I don’t think ice is a barrier. I do agree that it’s unlikely that life would exist on that planet. But I think the chances of life being slim are more down to the difficulty in the bootstrapping stage rather than the environment being too inhospitable to host life. By that I mean DNA forming (for example) might be 90% of the problem and survival might be 10%. Figures obviously made up but I hope you understand my (crudely expressed) point. There’s also the point that extraterrestrial life might not mimic the typical examples we see on Earth. In fact in plausible for silicon and/or arsenic to be building blocks for DNA and that’s only narrowly widening our expectations of life.

nwallin 7y ago
> But I think the chances of life being slim are more down to the difficulty in the bootstrapping stage rather than the environment being too inhospitable to host life. I'm 100% in agreement on this. My argument is that with no oceans, abiogenesis is basically impossible. There's not really a useful starting point if everything is rock and ice. I have no doubt that in 200 years a prepared group of humans could be dropped there and thrive. (transportation issues not withstanding) But life couldn't start there from nothing. I don't think silicon based life is plausible. It can't form double silicon silicon bonds. Overall its chemistry is utterly boring compared to carbon's, and carbon is far more common than silicon is. Again, same argument. If silicon based life were intelligently created, sure, it would probably thrive. But there's no way it would spontaneously create itself. And honestly, it would probably evolve to being carbon fairly quickly.
- pushpop 7y ago
  I’ve read plenty of material which would disagree with your skeptisim there eg (top link in DDG) https://www.astrobio.net/news-exclusive/possibility-silicon-based-life-grows/amp/ https://www.astrobio.net/news-exclusive/possibility-silicon-... Regarding life, I don’t just think human life could thrive in such environments, I think even single cell organisms could...if implanted there that is. As I said earlier, we have life on Earth in seemingly less hospitable environments like naked rock faces, sulphur-rich volcanic lakes, etc. We even have microbial life on Earth that uses arsenic as one of the chemical elements for DNA. So while 99.99% of life here does fall into a narrow spectrum, even on Earth we are constantly surprised by the ability for life to thrive and adapt in environments it classically shouldn’t. Therefore I think we should be open minded to the possibility of surprises outside our own ecosystems. Albeit bootstrapping aside.

nwallin 7y ago

> But I think the chances of life being slim are more down to the difficulty in the bootstrapping stage rather than the environment being too inhospitable to host life. I'm 100% in agreement on this. My argument is that with no oceans, abiogenesis is basically impossible. There's not really a useful starting point if everything is rock and ice. I have no doubt that in 200 years a prepared group of humans could be dropped there and thrive. (transportation issues not withstanding) But life couldn't start there from nothing. I don't think silicon based life is plausible. It can't form double silicon silicon bonds. Overall its chemistry is utterly boring compared to carbon's, and carbon is far more common than silicon is. Again, same argument. If silicon based life were intelligently created, sure, it would probably thrive. But there's no way it would spontaneously create itself. And honestly, it would probably evolve to being carbon fairly quickly.

pushpop 7y ago
I’ve read plenty of material which would disagree with your skeptisim there eg (top link in DDG) https://www.astrobio.net/news-exclusive/possibility-silicon-based-life-grows/amp/ https://www.astrobio.net/news-exclusive/possibility-silicon-... Regarding life, I don’t just think human life could thrive in such environments, I think even single cell organisms could...if implanted there that is. As I said earlier, we have life on Earth in seemingly less hospitable environments like naked rock faces, sulphur-rich volcanic lakes, etc. We even have microbial life on Earth that uses arsenic as one of the chemical elements for DNA. So while 99.99% of life here does fall into a narrow spectrum, even on Earth we are constantly surprised by the ability for life to thrive and adapt in environments it classically shouldn’t. Therefore I think we should be open minded to the possibility of surprises outside our own ecosystems. Albeit bootstrapping aside.