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I wonder if there ever will be completely artificial birth with modified genome to mass produce voluntarily slaves since their brain is altered to feel buoyant

I wonder if there ever will be completely artificial birth with modified genome to mass produce voluntarily slaves since their brain is altered to feel buoyant from slaving for the corporate overlords. Would that be unethical? Should you stop someone from slavery if they perceive it as better? Wouldn't you impose your own will if you did that? What if they feel pain from not slaving away? Since it's from scratch and you can make them infertile or fertile with only similar people, what other reasons are there for you to not do that?

kbenson 7y ago
That's basically what dogs are, for some people/groups. Are dogs used in this way unethical? (real question, not implied judgement)
- zionic 7y ago
  Oh man, now that is a can of worms.
- katzgrau 7y ago
  I think about it all the time. Love my beagle, but I've concluded that the ownership of an animal is unethical. I'm not exactly doing anything about that because I simultaneously hold the usual line of thinking (despite the obvious conflict) that hey, he gets treated better by me than nature would probably treat him.
  - chibg10 7y ago
    I feel fairly uneasy about my ownership of my cat. I live alone (besides the cat) and am probably gone 12/16 waking hours per day and obviously asleep the other 8. During the remaining 4, I’m probably cooking, showering, or recreating (not involving the cat). Add all this up and the cat probably gets about 5-10 min of attention from me each day. That’s the entirety of her interaction with any other living thing. Day in, day out. I’m not an expert but my guess is that that feelings of boredom/loneliness that humans feel are relatively primal and experienced similarly (at some level) in most other mammals. If that’s true at all, it comes to a rough life for domesticated cats. That’s ignoring the fact that cats usually have large territories that they patrol in the wild while my apartment is 700 sqft as well :\
mc32 7y ago
Android robots will be a reality before your scenario has a chance at reality. People will opt for the dependable, low maintenance ethics-free option.
- DethNinja 7y ago
  Or they might fear the robotic take-over and prefer genetically engineered workers. In any case, DNA looks like a cryptographic code to me. It grew and grew for millions of years and cracking that code without side effects seems similar to cracking a strong cryptographic code. That being said I actually don’t possess any knowledge in this area, perhaps someone more knowledgable would chime-in on how close we are to genetically engineer organisms with well predictable side effects.
- Andrew_nenakhov 7y ago
  In the described case robots are indistinguishable from biorobots. Does type of hardware make any difference for ethic problems? Btw, the original robots [0] from which the name originates were made of flesh and blood, not mechanical parts. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/R.U.R https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/R.U.R.
  - pier25 7y ago
    From the wikipedia link: > In Czech, robota means forced labour of the kind that serfs had to perform on their masters' lands and is derived from rab, meaning "slave".
    - Andrew_nenakhov 7y ago
      Well, 'robota' means 'labour' (see German 'Arbeit', it's the same word), 'rab' (slave) is just one of derivatives from it. Another is 'rebenok' (child, baby), so it's not such a sinister as it may seem from this article. Source: I'm Slavic. )
  - mc32 7y ago
    I think if something is made of electronics and material parts the ethics are different. It's be like asking if someone bashing their motorcycle is the same as someone bashing their horse. And, while an interesting footnote for the English word robot, that in Slavic languages whence it's deriven it can refer to worker/servant/serf/slave is beside the point.
wostusername 7y ago
My gift to industry is the genetically engineered worker, or Genejack. Specially designed for labor, the Genejack's muscles and nerves are ideal for his task, and the cerebral cortex has been atrophied so that he can desire nothing except to perform his duties. Tyranny, you say? How can you tyrannize someone who cannot feel pain? Chairman Sheng-ji Yang "Essays on Mind and Matter"
- brobdingnagians 7y ago
  That game (Alpha Centauri) had an amazing number of insightful quotes, both from real individuals and from in-game individuals. That was one of those visionary games where so many things were artfully done.
toomanybeersies 7y ago
You've basically described Brave New World.
- chongli 7y ago
  More people need to read this book. It seems like a lot of people read 1984 in school but not so many read Brave New World! The two books are good companions for comparison with real world trends. Sometimes one seems more plausible than the other, and then it shifts back again. Brave New World changed my entire outlook on consumerism and mass media. I recommend it to everyone!
has2k1 7y ago
It seems unethical if you do it by gene drive. But what if you add some natural randomness to the process and other desirable objectives. Imagine a dating service with a DNA database and you can match up people whose offspring could potentially be very subservient. What if the full effect is expected after matching 5 generations of people? What if the real goal is to create a fraction of people more attentive to minding about the environment and total blissful subservience is just a bi-product? For the good of the human race!
- thrwaway69 7y ago
  1] https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/dec/16/dating-app-genetic-matching-not-eugenics-scientist-says https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/dec/16/dating-app-g... 2] https://www.dnaromance.com/ https://www.dnaromance.com/ Well, there are many already.
hdevarajan 7y ago
It's speculated in [1], that agriculture selected evolved humanity towards both long term planning and docility [1]Cochran, Gregory, and Henry Harpending. The 10,000 year explosion: How civilization accelerated human evolution. Basic Books, 2009.
quotemstr 7y ago
I don't think this scenario is realistic. It would almost certainly be easier and cheaper to use mechanical automation over human slaves.
- Turing_Machine 7y ago
  Well, people do enjoy being served by other human beings. I'm not making any moral judgment about that, just noting that it is a fact. Compare the service in a fast food joint to the service in a four-star restaurant. Certainly, the fast food joint is cheaper, but price is not the only factor here. The same applies to seeing a live band compared to listening to a recording, or getting a manicure compared to just cutting your own nails, or... any number of things, up to and including sex work.

kbenson 7y ago

That's basically what dogs are, for some people/groups. Are dogs used in this way unethical? (real question, not implied judgement)

zionic 7y ago
Oh man, now that is a can of worms.
katzgrau 7y ago
I think about it all the time. Love my beagle, but I've concluded that the ownership of an animal is unethical. I'm not exactly doing anything about that because I simultaneously hold the usual line of thinking (despite the obvious conflict) that hey, he gets treated better by me than nature would probably treat him.
- chibg10 7y ago
  I feel fairly uneasy about my ownership of my cat. I live alone (besides the cat) and am probably gone 12/16 waking hours per day and obviously asleep the other 8. During the remaining 4, I’m probably cooking, showering, or recreating (not involving the cat). Add all this up and the cat probably gets about 5-10 min of attention from me each day. That’s the entirety of her interaction with any other living thing. Day in, day out. I’m not an expert but my guess is that that feelings of boredom/loneliness that humans feel are relatively primal and experienced similarly (at some level) in most other mammals. If that’s true at all, it comes to a rough life for domesticated cats. That’s ignoring the fact that cats usually have large territories that they patrol in the wild while my apartment is 700 sqft as well :\

mc32 7y ago

Android robots will be a reality before your scenario has a chance at reality. People will opt for the dependable, low maintenance ethics-free option.

DethNinja 7y ago
Or they might fear the robotic take-over and prefer genetically engineered workers. In any case, DNA looks like a cryptographic code to me. It grew and grew for millions of years and cracking that code without side effects seems similar to cracking a strong cryptographic code. That being said I actually don’t possess any knowledge in this area, perhaps someone more knowledgable would chime-in on how close we are to genetically engineer organisms with well predictable side effects.
Andrew_nenakhov 7y ago
In the described case robots are indistinguishable from biorobots. Does type of hardware make any difference for ethic problems? Btw, the original robots [0] from which the name originates were made of flesh and blood, not mechanical parts. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/R.U.R https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/R.U.R.
- pier25 7y ago
  From the wikipedia link: > In Czech, robota means forced labour of the kind that serfs had to perform on their masters' lands and is derived from rab, meaning "slave".
  - Andrew_nenakhov 7y ago
    Well, 'robota' means 'labour' (see German 'Arbeit', it's the same word), 'rab' (slave) is just one of derivatives from it. Another is 'rebenok' (child, baby), so it's not such a sinister as it may seem from this article. Source: I'm Slavic. )
- mc32 7y ago
  I think if something is made of electronics and material parts the ethics are different. It's be like asking if someone bashing their motorcycle is the same as someone bashing their horse. And, while an interesting footnote for the English word robot, that in Slavic languages whence it's deriven it can refer to worker/servant/serf/slave is beside the point.

wostusername 7y ago

My gift to industry is the genetically engineered worker, or Genejack. Specially designed for labor, the Genejack's muscles and nerves are ideal for his task, and the cerebral cortex has been atrophied so that he can desire nothing except to perform his duties. Tyranny, you say? How can you tyrannize someone who cannot feel pain? Chairman Sheng-ji Yang "Essays on Mind and Matter"

brobdingnagians 7y ago
That game (Alpha Centauri) had an amazing number of insightful quotes, both from real individuals and from in-game individuals. That was one of those visionary games where so many things were artfully done.

toomanybeersies 7y ago

You've basically described Brave New World.

chongli 7y ago
More people need to read this book. It seems like a lot of people read 1984 in school but not so many read Brave New World! The two books are good companions for comparison with real world trends. Sometimes one seems more plausible than the other, and then it shifts back again. Brave New World changed my entire outlook on consumerism and mass media. I recommend it to everyone!

has2k1 7y ago

It seems unethical if you do it by gene drive. But what if you add some natural randomness to the process and other desirable objectives. Imagine a dating service with a DNA database and you can match up people whose offspring could potentially be very subservient. What if the full effect is expected after matching 5 generations of people? What if the real goal is to create a fraction of people more attentive to minding about the environment and total blissful subservience is just a bi-product? For the good of the human race!

thrwaway69 7y ago
1] https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/dec/16/dating-app-genetic-matching-not-eugenics-scientist-says https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/dec/16/dating-app-g... 2] https://www.dnaromance.com/ https://www.dnaromance.com/ Well, there are many already.

hdevarajan 7y ago

It's speculated in [1], that agriculture selected evolved humanity towards both long term planning and docility [1]Cochran, Gregory, and Henry Harpending. The 10,000 year explosion: How civilization accelerated human evolution. Basic Books, 2009.

quotemstr 7y ago

I don't think this scenario is realistic. It would almost certainly be easier and cheaper to use mechanical automation over human slaves.

Turing_Machine 7y ago
Well, people do enjoy being served by other human beings. I'm not making any moral judgment about that, just noting that it is a fact. Compare the service in a fast food joint to the service in a four-star restaurant. Certainly, the fast food joint is cheaper, but price is not the only factor here. The same applies to seeing a live band compared to listening to a recording, or getting a manicure compared to just cutting your own nails, or... any number of things, up to and including sex work.