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I agree, and I don't think I appreciated this point enough when I was in school. In high school or college, I would do literally what is said here - get assigne

I agree, and I don't think I appreciated this point enough when I was in school. In high school or college, I would do literally what is said here - get assigned a book, and read the book. In my professional reading, or also hobby reading as an adult, I would never approach learning a topic that way. As an adult, I supplement my reading of a text with secondary sources about the text (things people have written about the text, wikipedia articles about the text or things in it, etc.). To take an example of an edition that does this really well: the "Landmark" series for Thucydides [1] and Herodotus [2] both qualify as "big, difficult" books, but the book comes with additional secondary sources that aid in the reading to orient the newbie in how to approach the text. [1] https://www.amazon.com/Landmark-Thucydides-Comprehensive-Guide-Peloponnesian/dp/0684827905 https://www.amazon.com/Landmark-Thucydides-Comprehensive-Gui... [2] https://www.amazon.com/Landmark-Herodotus-Histories-Robert-Strassler/dp/1400031141 https://www.amazon.com/Landmark-Herodotus-Histories-Robert-S...

hogFeast 7y ago
Yep, tbh it is kind of wasteful to just go into Thucydides...like you read it, and 95% of it will go over your head (that is a particularly good choice of example because it is at the nexus of sp many important subjects...if you just come in without anything...it is just a normal book). And, imo, dipping between books is far more effective. Even at university, you are given a few sources and you move between them but it isn't natural. Going between sources naturally at your own pace and based on your own interest/understanding will build far more actual knowledge than trying to shortcut your way there (and yes, Wiki is great for that). It is a shame that doesn't fit into some kind of formal education system...definitely in a subject like history, the end result would be far better work from academics.
- nubbins 7y ago
  Ouch, that really hit home about Thucydides. I was going through the Classics at one point, and did get a lot out of Herodotus and some of the philosophers, but Peloponnesian War just seemed like a list of islands they sailed to, and fought at. I did get a general sense that diplomacy and debate hasn't changed much in 2500 years though.
  - yesenadam 7y ago
    Hehe I had to stop reading Thucydides because my flatmates were fighting each other at the time, and the book was way too reminiscent of what was happening at home.
    - hogFeast 7y ago
      One of the funniest things I have heard said about Thucydides. Were you just like: "Bro, if the Delian League could see you two now?" laughs quietly to self and walks out the room shaking head
      - yesenadam 7y ago
        There was me and 4 or 5 others renting a huge, cheap Sydney house. My girlfriend and her best friend (early 20s, involved in uni politics) were fighting, and there was a couple in their 40s that had split up, he (a playwright) wanted her out immediately, and she was being hilariously cruel. I came back from visiting my parents to find everyone fighting with each other. I'd just gotten through Herodotus, with great pleasure, but the Melian Dialogue was too much, too in-my-face, sickening.

hogFeast 7y ago

Yep, tbh it is kind of wasteful to just go into Thucydides...like you read it, and 95% of it will go over your head (that is a particularly good choice of example because it is at the nexus of sp many important subjects...if you just come in without anything...it is just a normal book). And, imo, dipping between books is far more effective. Even at university, you are given a few sources and you move between them but it isn't natural. Going between sources naturally at your own pace and based on your own interest/understanding will build far more actual knowledge than trying to shortcut your way there (and yes, Wiki is great for that). It is a shame that doesn't fit into some kind of formal education system...definitely in a subject like history, the end result would be far better work from academics.

nubbins 7y ago
Ouch, that really hit home about Thucydides. I was going through the Classics at one point, and did get a lot out of Herodotus and some of the philosophers, but Peloponnesian War just seemed like a list of islands they sailed to, and fought at. I did get a general sense that diplomacy and debate hasn't changed much in 2500 years though.
- yesenadam 7y ago
  Hehe I had to stop reading Thucydides because my flatmates were fighting each other at the time, and the book was way too reminiscent of what was happening at home.
  - hogFeast 7y ago
    One of the funniest things I have heard said about Thucydides. Were you just like: "Bro, if the Delian League could see you two now?" laughs quietly to self and walks out the room shaking head
    - yesenadam 7y ago
      There was me and 4 or 5 others renting a huge, cheap Sydney house. My girlfriend and her best friend (early 20s, involved in uni politics) were fighting, and there was a couple in their 40s that had split up, he (a playwright) wanted her out immediately, and she was being hilariously cruel. I came back from visiting my parents to find everyone fighting with each other. I'd just gotten through Herodotus, with great pleasure, but the Melian Dialogue was too much, too in-my-face, sickening.