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The liberal worldview thinks that everything is basically ok and that the problem is that "norms" are being violated and bad information leads to pointless conf

The liberal worldview thinks that everything is basically ok and that the problem is that "norms" are being violated and bad information leads to pointless conflict. Liberals are wrong. There are fundemental structural problems with this country and the current psychosis is the result of neither political party addressing them while going war and profit crazy on the backs of the working people that slave and die without improving their position.

CerealFounder 7y ago
I hope you understand the wild hypocrisy of this comment given the article.
tyri_kai_psomi 7y ago
The comment is not fitting to the article, but I wanted to respond to it anyways because I found it interesting and it's not something talked about here much, for obvious reasons. The problem is going to escape many on the left, including most people here as well, as many people here are mostly agnostic/atheistic/anti-faith and believe having faith is somehow anti-intellectual. The reality of the situation is the US was founded, both socially and politically on Judeo-Christian principles of morality, and the nuclear family and it is undeniable the evidence to support this in our laws and constitution. We have seen more upheaval and social change in the last 10-15 years than the previous 50 all in the name of "progress" (never mind it is those very people who subscribe to that "progress" that are leading the way in unhappiness, depression, low marriage rate, low birth rate, and suicide). There are positions now being held by major political frontrunners that are simply not compatible with any person of faith, or any sort of compromise with the opposite political party. There is simply no compromise to be had. The biggest elephant in the room is abortion. My two favorite writers on this subject are Caitlin Flanagan for a left-side perspective, and Alexandra Descantis for a right-side perspective. Both write very thoughtfully on this issue: https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/how-democrats-purged-safe-legal-rare-from-the-party/2019/11/15/369af73c-01a4-11ea-8bab-0fc209e065a8_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/how-democrats-purged-... https://www.realclearpolitics.com/2019/11/16/an_honest_abortion_debate_response_to_caitlin_flanagan_492615.html https://www.realclearpolitics.com/2019/11/16/an_honest_abort... Many people call America a Christian nation. I know this will get downvoted to hell here. I consider myself a well traveled man, and I will quote one famous professor I had the pleasure of listening to a lecture of that rings especially true to me: "The only country in the world that doesn't know America is a Christian nation is America."
- crooked-v 7y ago
  > suicide Actually, suicide rates in the US are concentrated overwhelmingly in rural areas [1], which corresponds strongly to conservativism, while some of the lowest suicide rates in the country are in ultra-progressive bastions like New York City and San Francisco. [1]: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/05/24/mapping-the-rising-tide-of-suicide-deaths-across-the-united-states/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/05/24/mappi...
- omegaworks 7y ago
  >the US was founded, both socially and politically on Judeo-Christian principles of morality What principles of morality excuse and justify native genocide and chattel slavery: practices that formed the actual economic and political foundation of the United States? "Judeo-Christian" is a white-evangelical term that erases Jewish culture and folds it into a narrative of supremacy. >There are positions now being held by major political frontrunners that are simply not compatible with any person of faith Your presumption is false. Not all people follow your faith or the narrow view you have of the faithful. Of all the founding narratives, the one grounded most in the historical political reality was the need for American to encompass the varied faiths of the early country. Among the colonists were Quakers, Catholics, Lutherans, Jews, Baptists, Anglicans and many others. They attempted to write a constitution that would ensure they couldn't create a State that would allow one to impose their beliefs on another. It follows that this same constitution would not allow the State to impose the beliefs of a minority[1] on choices a woman makes with her own body. 1. https://www.people-press.org/2019/08/29/u-s-public-continues-to-favor-legal-abortion-oppose-overturning-roe-v-wade/ https://www.people-press.org/2019/08/29/u-s-public-continues...
  - bendbro 7y ago
    > What principles of morality excuse and justify... That a system is hypocritical or irrational is not criticism of it existing, only criticism that it should exist. The culture very obviously exists, otherwise there wouldn't be a heteronormative, patriarchal, workaholic, individualist, capitalist, suburban culture for far-left types to fight. > Your presumption is false. Not all people follow your faith or the narrow view you have of the faithful... You are attacking a strawman. Obviously not all faithful hold traditional views, but a large group of faithful obviously do hold traditional views. > Among the colonists were Quakers, Catholics, Lutherans, Jews, Baptists, Anglicans and many others. All of whom were Judeo-Christian and grossly compatible with the traditional culture I described above. The core point of the article linked and the grand-parent comment is that the US used to have a single, "traditional" base culture. We now have two, competing cultures. I don't think your comment addresses that point, rather it only addresses the inconsistencies within the traditional culture. Debating first-level politics doesn't ascend to the level of something that is "interesting to hackers," which is why political debates are softly banned on hackernews.
crooked-v 7y ago
> neither political party addressing them This bothsaming is a stretch. The Democratic national platform is all about increased support for the poor and middle class, the more radical wing of the party is pushing for dramatic and fundamental restructuring of much of the national economy and welfare system as part of combating climate change, and their current Presidential slate includes several avowed anti-war anti-corporate-hegemony candidates. Even judging purely by recent history, while Obama was kind of underwhelming in many ways, he still got the ACA pushed through, which has dramatically improved the lives of many people previously left to suffer and die because of 'preexisting conditions'.
- AnimalMuppet 7y ago
  > The Democratic national platform is all about increased support for the poor and middle class The "basket of deplorables"? The Democrats talk about caring about them (sometimes - Hillary seems to have forgotten that part when she was running), but the contempt shows through. Actually caring about them instead of paying lip service might take the Democrats a long way. Listening to them wouldn't hurt, either.
  - orf 7y ago
    Some of Trump’s supporters are completely deplorable. Those where poorly chosen words spoken at the wrong time, but that doesn’t make them incorrect. “The Republican Party: not racist, just #1 with racists”
    - chrisco255 7y ago
      Identity politic race baiting is a great strategy for avoiding ideological discussion about ideas to govern society. This is just inflammatory garbage that serves no constructive purpose whatsoever. And so far as the article mentions the so-called Southern strategy, it's completely bogus and there are plenty of counter points about the "parties flipping" due to the Voting Rights Act. Senator Byrd, of West Virginia, a former KKK member and a Democrat, remained in power until he died in 2010. Al Gore is from Tennessee and carried the state for Clinton, of Arkansas, also blue at the time, in the 90s. If you actually look at the Presidential elections and Congressional and Senate races, and local legislatures the shift from the solid South as a shoo in for Democrats didn't occur until the 90s. Reagan, of California, was almost universally popular and won 49 of 50 states in his second run. Reagan did more than anyone in the 20th century to shift the country to the right. Yes, the Californian Hollywood actor. The voting rights act "flip" is a myth. The truth is that Democrats stopped focusing on working class people as a voting block, which used to form their base. They lost the blue collar working class and then retroactively blamed the voting rights act, which is complete BS because no one since the 70s in either party has ever run and won on a platform of repealing the VRA.
jessaustin 7y ago
It's OK, we'll just vote harder next time!

CerealFounder 7y ago

I hope you understand the wild hypocrisy of this comment given the article.

tyri_kai_psomi 7y ago

The comment is not fitting to the article, but I wanted to respond to it anyways because I found it interesting and it's not something talked about here much, for obvious reasons. The problem is going to escape many on the left, including most people here as well, as many people here are mostly agnostic/atheistic/anti-faith and believe having faith is somehow anti-intellectual. The reality of the situation is the US was founded, both socially and politically on Judeo-Christian principles of morality, and the nuclear family and it is undeniable the evidence to support this in our laws and constitution. We have seen more upheaval and social change in the last 10-15 years than the previous 50 all in the name of "progress" (never mind it is those very people who subscribe to that "progress" that are leading the way in unhappiness, depression, low marriage rate, low birth rate, and suicide). There are positions now being held by major political frontrunners that are simply not compatible with any person of faith, or any sort of compromise with the opposite political party. There is simply no compromise to be had. The biggest elephant in the room is abortion. My two favorite writers on this subject are Caitlin Flanagan for a left-side perspective, and Alexandra Descantis for a right-side perspective. Both write very thoughtfully on this issue: https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/how-democrats-purged-safe-legal-rare-from-the-party/2019/11/15/369af73c-01a4-11ea-8bab-0fc209e065a8_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/how-democrats-purged-... https://www.realclearpolitics.com/2019/11/16/an_honest_abortion_debate_response_to_caitlin_flanagan_492615.html https://www.realclearpolitics.com/2019/11/16/an_honest_abort... Many people call America a Christian nation. I know this will get downvoted to hell here. I consider myself a well traveled man, and I will quote one famous professor I had the pleasure of listening to a lecture of that rings especially true to me: "The only country in the world that doesn't know America is a Christian nation is America."

crooked-v 7y ago
> suicide Actually, suicide rates in the US are concentrated overwhelmingly in rural areas [1], which corresponds strongly to conservativism, while some of the lowest suicide rates in the country are in ultra-progressive bastions like New York City and San Francisco. [1]: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/05/24/mapping-the-rising-tide-of-suicide-deaths-across-the-united-states/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/05/24/mappi...
omegaworks 7y ago
>the US was founded, both socially and politically on Judeo-Christian principles of morality What principles of morality excuse and justify native genocide and chattel slavery: practices that formed the actual economic and political foundation of the United States? "Judeo-Christian" is a white-evangelical term that erases Jewish culture and folds it into a narrative of supremacy. >There are positions now being held by major political frontrunners that are simply not compatible with any person of faith Your presumption is false. Not all people follow your faith or the narrow view you have of the faithful. Of all the founding narratives, the one grounded most in the historical political reality was the need for American to encompass the varied faiths of the early country. Among the colonists were Quakers, Catholics, Lutherans, Jews, Baptists, Anglicans and many others. They attempted to write a constitution that would ensure they couldn't create a State that would allow one to impose their beliefs on another. It follows that this same constitution would not allow the State to impose the beliefs of a minority[1] on choices a woman makes with her own body. 1. https://www.people-press.org/2019/08/29/u-s-public-continues-to-favor-legal-abortion-oppose-overturning-roe-v-wade/ https://www.people-press.org/2019/08/29/u-s-public-continues...
- bendbro 7y ago
  > What principles of morality excuse and justify... That a system is hypocritical or irrational is not criticism of it existing, only criticism that it should exist. The culture very obviously exists, otherwise there wouldn't be a heteronormative, patriarchal, workaholic, individualist, capitalist, suburban culture for far-left types to fight. > Your presumption is false. Not all people follow your faith or the narrow view you have of the faithful... You are attacking a strawman. Obviously not all faithful hold traditional views, but a large group of faithful obviously do hold traditional views. > Among the colonists were Quakers, Catholics, Lutherans, Jews, Baptists, Anglicans and many others. All of whom were Judeo-Christian and grossly compatible with the traditional culture I described above. The core point of the article linked and the grand-parent comment is that the US used to have a single, "traditional" base culture. We now have two, competing cultures. I don't think your comment addresses that point, rather it only addresses the inconsistencies within the traditional culture. Debating first-level politics doesn't ascend to the level of something that is "interesting to hackers," which is why political debates are softly banned on hackernews.

crooked-v 7y ago

> neither political party addressing them This bothsaming is a stretch. The Democratic national platform is all about increased support for the poor and middle class, the more radical wing of the party is pushing for dramatic and fundamental restructuring of much of the national economy and welfare system as part of combating climate change, and their current Presidential slate includes several avowed anti-war anti-corporate-hegemony candidates. Even judging purely by recent history, while Obama was kind of underwhelming in many ways, he still got the ACA pushed through, which has dramatically improved the lives of many people previously left to suffer and die because of 'preexisting conditions'.

AnimalMuppet 7y ago
> The Democratic national platform is all about increased support for the poor and middle class The "basket of deplorables"? The Democrats talk about caring about them (sometimes - Hillary seems to have forgotten that part when she was running), but the contempt shows through. Actually caring about them instead of paying lip service might take the Democrats a long way. Listening to them wouldn't hurt, either.
- orf 7y ago
  Some of Trump’s supporters are completely deplorable. Those where poorly chosen words spoken at the wrong time, but that doesn’t make them incorrect. “The Republican Party: not racist, just #1 with racists”
  - chrisco255 7y ago
    Identity politic race baiting is a great strategy for avoiding ideological discussion about ideas to govern society. This is just inflammatory garbage that serves no constructive purpose whatsoever. And so far as the article mentions the so-called Southern strategy, it's completely bogus and there are plenty of counter points about the "parties flipping" due to the Voting Rights Act. Senator Byrd, of West Virginia, a former KKK member and a Democrat, remained in power until he died in 2010. Al Gore is from Tennessee and carried the state for Clinton, of Arkansas, also blue at the time, in the 90s. If you actually look at the Presidential elections and Congressional and Senate races, and local legislatures the shift from the solid South as a shoo in for Democrats didn't occur until the 90s. Reagan, of California, was almost universally popular and won 49 of 50 states in his second run. Reagan did more than anyone in the 20th century to shift the country to the right. Yes, the Californian Hollywood actor. The voting rights act "flip" is a myth. The truth is that Democrats stopped focusing on working class people as a voting block, which used to form their base. They lost the blue collar working class and then retroactively blamed the voting rights act, which is complete BS because no one since the 70s in either party has ever run and won on a platform of repealing the VRA.

jessaustin 7y ago

It's OK, we'll just vote harder next time!