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How about the 2009 New York City Subway plot[1]? I suppose it's possible that Zazi was a patsy, but if you take the Wikipedia page at face value it seems pretty

by user1980 7y ago

How about the 2009 New York City Subway plot[1]? I suppose it's possible that Zazi was a patsy, but if you take the Wikipedia page at face value it seems pretty damning. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_New_York_City_Subway_and_United_Kingdom_plot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_New_York_City_Subway_and_...

afthonos 7y ago
That one looks legit. I’ll still claim I was right because it was … 10 years ago. ;-) To be clear, “patsy” is too harsh a term for what I meant. There is value in diverting the attention of people intending to do harm from real plots to fake ones invented by the FBI. However, that is not “thwarting an attack”, and in my opinion does not justify excessive surveillance.
- user1980 7y ago
  I see what you're getting at. A story like this one: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/ex-marines-isis-inspired-san-francisco-attack-foiled-feds-say https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/ex-marines-isis-inspired-... You would ask the question "How far would he have gotten if an FBI agent hadn't got involved?" There seems to be a pattern of "idiot makes vague threats on Twitter" => "FBI agent encourages him" => "FBI waits and eventually arrests, plot thwarted." in a lot of these stories, which seems to be the basis for your categorical assertion that > every terrorism prosecution that involved a foiled plot in the past ten years or so has involved the FBI convincing some helpless, directionless loser to do a bad thing and then arresting said loser and claiming victory against Al-Qaeda So I can see why you would think Jameson fits the pattern. How about this guy? https://edition.cnn.com/2015/09/10/us/9-11-memorial-bomb-plot-kansas-city-missouri/ https://edition.cnn.com/2015/09/10/us/9-11-memorial-bomb-plo... > Australi Witness urged the FBI source to put nails, glass and metal into the bomb, according to the FBI-authored complaint. He instructed the FBI source "to dip the screws and other shrapnel in rat poison in order to inflict more casualties," the complaint states. Doesn't sound too helpless to me.

afthonos 7y ago

That one looks legit. I’ll still claim I was right because it was … 10 years ago. ;-) To be clear, “patsy” is too harsh a term for what I meant. There is value in diverting the attention of people intending to do harm from real plots to fake ones invented by the FBI. However, that is not “thwarting an attack”, and in my opinion does not justify excessive surveillance.

user1980 7y ago
I see what you're getting at. A story like this one: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/ex-marines-isis-inspired-san-francisco-attack-foiled-feds-say https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/ex-marines-isis-inspired-... You would ask the question "How far would he have gotten if an FBI agent hadn't got involved?" There seems to be a pattern of "idiot makes vague threats on Twitter" => "FBI agent encourages him" => "FBI waits and eventually arrests, plot thwarted." in a lot of these stories, which seems to be the basis for your categorical assertion that > every terrorism prosecution that involved a foiled plot in the past ten years or so has involved the FBI convincing some helpless, directionless loser to do a bad thing and then arresting said loser and claiming victory against Al-Qaeda So I can see why you would think Jameson fits the pattern. How about this guy? https://edition.cnn.com/2015/09/10/us/9-11-memorial-bomb-plot-kansas-city-missouri/ https://edition.cnn.com/2015/09/10/us/9-11-memorial-bomb-plo... > Australi Witness urged the FBI source to put nails, glass and metal into the bomb, according to the FBI-authored complaint. He instructed the FBI source "to dip the screws and other shrapnel in rat poison in order to inflict more casualties," the complaint states. Doesn't sound too helpless to me.