4 ms·

Just want to chime in and say the vast majority of people working on government contracts fall into two categories: 1. Hard working folks trying to do the rig

Just want to chime in and say the vast majority of people working on government contracts fall into two categories: 1. Hard working folks trying to do the right thing (approx 20-50% of the people) 2. People who are coasting and nominally meet whatever requirement for the position (some combination of experience and certification usually) who can barely get the job done, but they are friendly and don't cause trouble (by getting in the way of the people who actually DO get something done) so no one bothers them and they get to collect a paycheck. (50-80%) Many from category one turn into category 2 as time goes by, because #2 is actually the optimal strategy. Most companies also tolerate #2 because the client isn't complaining and they are making their cut on the person's hourly rate. So everyone's more or less happy and life goes on. Also note that the distribution of people doesn't significantly vary based on whether the employer is SDVOSB/WOSB/whatever. However, the largest companies (like Accenture) do tend to have a higher proportion of #2s, but also a higher proportion of extremely charismatic "relationship managers" who flatter, gladhand, and overall stroke the client representative's egos and fantasies to cover up for it. The government contracting business has plenty of well-meaning, hard working professionals in it. But there's also a lot of not so much waste, fraud, and abuse, but "skating by" going on as well. The main reason is due to the obstreperous rules, bureaucracy, stagnation, and old tech, the jobs pay above market AND tend to provide excellent work/life balance. Source: I've been a gov't employee, then worked in contracting, went to private sector, now back in contracting. I'd like to think I'm in category 1, and I have many, many days when I am extremely jealous of my colleagues in category 2, who make just as much money as I do but do about 20% of the work. One last edit: I find it funny that one SDVOSB owner was considered "Service Disabled" because he tore his ACL playing football for Navy. But I'm a little bit in the "don't hate the player, hate the game" camp on that one. I'd start a company, too, in that position. Doesn't mean I'm doing shitty work, just means it's easier to award me the work. They are two different things.

rjkennedy98 7y ago
I did government contracting work straight out of college. I don't know anyone competent who stayed working with the government. It is almost impossible to underestimate the amount of waste, bureaucracy, and BS you have to deal with on a day to day basis. Anyone competent with an ounce of integrity can't stand it. Literally in the private sector I do in a week what would be 3 months work in government.
- joncrane 7y ago
  The reason to stick with it is if you're trying to optimize for dollars earned per unit of effort expended, government contracting can't be beat.
ben509 7y ago
I don't think framing it as intentions really captures what's going on. I think the basic intention of a contractor is the same as anyone else: come in to do some work, and go home when it's done. When I worked as a contractor, a few times I was full of righteous fury and ran my mouth to colleagues about their work. In hindsight, I'm convinced they absolutely believed they worked hard and delivered a high quality product, that what I was complaining about was a reasonable compromise. And, frankly, when I left for the private sector, it was a bit of a shock to learn that I really hadn't been working as hard or as well as I thought. Instead, I'd frame it as incentives over time. There have to be outside pressures to keep everyone honest. In the private sector, they have to compete with other companies, and indeed you see similar problems in firms or departments that are insulated from competition. In contracting, you've got a negative feedback loop: as contractors underdeliver, the clients scale back their expectations. As those expectations scale back, the contractors relax hiring to meet them. This has led to the population of contract workers stagnating to where it's well behind the private sector. Having done interviews of contract workers trying to transition out, they are frequently technically way more junior than they should be for the years of experience. And I think the companies trying to attract better people have a hard time when the candidates aren't impressed with the teams.
- jcadam 7y ago
  Yep, I'm turning 40 in a few months and have been working in the defense industry my entire career (and I spent 4 years in the Army before that, so I suppose that counts too). Most of my jobs have lasted 1-2 years. I get fed up and leave for another company working on a different program - thinking that the next one will be different. Small firms that are still trying to prove themselves and grow are usually the best to work for. Because they no-shit need to deliver and keep customers happy. As they get larger (and merge, etc.), defense firms all seem to resemble each other. Benefits get cut, pay gets stagnant, and standards for hiring start to slip. Eventually they become a butts-in-seats shop like the huge firms with names everyone knows. Time to move on. I've tried interviewing in the private sector (usually all of my job hunts every couple of years begin with a string of failed interviews in the private sector, and end with me just taking another job in the industry), never managed to get an offer, but if I walk into a defense industry interview, I can land an offer well over 50% of the time. Some contractors have thrown offers at me after a single 30 minute phone interview (tip: never accept those). Another part of the issue is the defense industry is definitely a bubble and you kind of get trapped after a while. If I'm desperate and need a new job, I have a list of contacts I can reach out to and easily get another contracting gig. In the private sector, I don't know anyone and I'd be trying to get in through the front door.
rb808 7y ago
Sounds like most corporations as well.
technofiend 7y ago
I worked on a government contract that Boeing lost to Ford Aerospace. What happened was the top few executives that interfaced between Boeing and NASA were replaced when the contract was taken over by Ford. Every other employee simply left Boeing on Friday and were Ford employees on Monday. I discovered this after asking why all the secured and padlocked cabinets had Boeing asset tags on them. So even when the government tries to "do the right thing" by switching contractors it may not mean much.
fzeroracer 7y ago
I did a bit of government contracting early on in my career and this seems about right to me. I think overall the government contracting experiment has failed. I saw my fair share of corruption and ineptitude on the side of the contractors who did everything they could to stall out projects, under deliver or embed themselves hard so that the government was forced to keep using their horrific product. I think there's just too much incentive for contractors to cheat the system that it results in poor quality software. The people I met were fantastic engineers and smart workers, but management would hold people back or actively engaged in efforts to sabotage developers because getting work done actually meant less profits for them.

rjkennedy98 7y ago

I did government contracting work straight out of college. I don't know anyone competent who stayed working with the government. It is almost impossible to underestimate the amount of waste, bureaucracy, and BS you have to deal with on a day to day basis. Anyone competent with an ounce of integrity can't stand it. Literally in the private sector I do in a week what would be 3 months work in government.

joncrane 7y ago
The reason to stick with it is if you're trying to optimize for dollars earned per unit of effort expended, government contracting can't be beat.

ben509 7y ago

I don't think framing it as intentions really captures what's going on. I think the basic intention of a contractor is the same as anyone else: come in to do some work, and go home when it's done. When I worked as a contractor, a few times I was full of righteous fury and ran my mouth to colleagues about their work. In hindsight, I'm convinced they absolutely believed they worked hard and delivered a high quality product, that what I was complaining about was a reasonable compromise. And, frankly, when I left for the private sector, it was a bit of a shock to learn that I really hadn't been working as hard or as well as I thought. Instead, I'd frame it as incentives over time. There have to be outside pressures to keep everyone honest. In the private sector, they have to compete with other companies, and indeed you see similar problems in firms or departments that are insulated from competition. In contracting, you've got a negative feedback loop: as contractors underdeliver, the clients scale back their expectations. As those expectations scale back, the contractors relax hiring to meet them. This has led to the population of contract workers stagnating to where it's well behind the private sector. Having done interviews of contract workers trying to transition out, they are frequently technically way more junior than they should be for the years of experience. And I think the companies trying to attract better people have a hard time when the candidates aren't impressed with the teams.

jcadam 7y ago
Yep, I'm turning 40 in a few months and have been working in the defense industry my entire career (and I spent 4 years in the Army before that, so I suppose that counts too). Most of my jobs have lasted 1-2 years. I get fed up and leave for another company working on a different program - thinking that the next one will be different. Small firms that are still trying to prove themselves and grow are usually the best to work for. Because they no-shit need to deliver and keep customers happy. As they get larger (and merge, etc.), defense firms all seem to resemble each other. Benefits get cut, pay gets stagnant, and standards for hiring start to slip. Eventually they become a butts-in-seats shop like the huge firms with names everyone knows. Time to move on. I've tried interviewing in the private sector (usually all of my job hunts every couple of years begin with a string of failed interviews in the private sector, and end with me just taking another job in the industry), never managed to get an offer, but if I walk into a defense industry interview, I can land an offer well over 50% of the time. Some contractors have thrown offers at me after a single 30 minute phone interview (tip: never accept those). Another part of the issue is the defense industry is definitely a bubble and you kind of get trapped after a while. If I'm desperate and need a new job, I have a list of contacts I can reach out to and easily get another contracting gig. In the private sector, I don't know anyone and I'd be trying to get in through the front door.

rb808 7y ago

Sounds like most corporations as well.

technofiend 7y ago

I worked on a government contract that Boeing lost to Ford Aerospace. What happened was the top few executives that interfaced between Boeing and NASA were replaced when the contract was taken over by Ford. Every other employee simply left Boeing on Friday and were Ford employees on Monday. I discovered this after asking why all the secured and padlocked cabinets had Boeing asset tags on them. So even when the government tries to "do the right thing" by switching contractors it may not mean much.

fzeroracer 7y ago

I did a bit of government contracting early on in my career and this seems about right to me. I think overall the government contracting experiment has failed. I saw my fair share of corruption and ineptitude on the side of the contractors who did everything they could to stall out projects, under deliver or embed themselves hard so that the government was forced to keep using their horrific product. I think there's just too much incentive for contractors to cheat the system that it results in poor quality software. The people I met were fantastic engineers and smart workers, but management would hold people back or actively engaged in efforts to sabotage developers because getting work done actually meant less profits for them.