4 ms·

People make cheats for money, for online infamy, and for the challenge of it People use cheats because it makes the game more enjoyable. In FPS, someone can sh

People make cheats for money, for online infamy, and for the challenge of it People use cheats because it makes the game more enjoyable. In FPS, someone can shoot you before you have time to react. In RTS, someone can step out of the darkness with an army that traps yours at just the right moment. Cheats replace those unpleasant experiences with pleasant ones where you ambush the enemy and fight them with an advantage Unfortunately cheating is a negative sum game. When both players cheat, it doesn't just even the odds once again, it makes the game you're playing significantly less enjoyable

jerf 7y ago
"People make cheats for money, for online infamy, and for the challenge of it" In all seriousness, I think there's a non-trivial aspect to it where human psychology is misfiring in the modern era. Certain people, mostly younger, have a drive to show off to potential mates, some more so than others, and superficially, spending lots of time creating cheats like this looks like it's leading to social approval and standing. You get lots of "thanks" and "kudos". But in reality, you're getting nothing. It doesn't work. People are willing to use the output, but whether rational on some level or not, I don't think you are really getting social credit for it, and even to the extent you are, it's far too widely dispersed to be any good. (That is, it may not exactly be useless to convince a million people to think slightly good of you, but harvesting that for any benefit is really tricky, whereas conclusively convincing someone you are a good person can be beneficial in all sorts of ways and is the basis of any number of relationships.) In grad school, I worked on an open source LCMS that spent a lot of time fighting people helping other students cheat on their homework. Instead of just solving their homework problem, the cheaters would solve the whole meta-problem (all the variants we might serve) and hand out the meta-solution. This requires a great deal more effort than just solving the individual problem alone. What was funny to me is... I don't think it actually got them anything. Nobody cares. They'll use your solution, but for all that work you get very little real social currency. The majority of your "customer base" is getting it from their friend, who got it from their friend, and the origin of the cheat isn't even known by probably the majority using it. Same sort of thing. Unfortunately, this is effectively unsolvable. By the time you hypothetically educate one group that this isn't useful, next year's group is already here. (Also, to be clear, I'm not saying this is all the reason, merely a less-explored one, and a sufficient one on its own to be a source of significant cheating.)
- yutuytuyt 7y ago
  >reality, you're getting nothing. It doesn't work Some people do it just to challenge themselves or to learn Free software wouldnt exist if everybody used your approach. You sounds as if you tried to say that putting effort into something without $$ as result is bad?
  - jerf 7y ago
    The fact that I think people are doing something for a given reason does not imply that reason is the only reason that thing is done, that other reasons to do that thing are invalid, or that other things done for the same reason are invalid. Dollars didn't even come up in my post. I think you read what you were expecting to read rather than what I wrote.
- saagarjha 7y ago
  > Certain people, mostly younger, have a drive to show off to potential mates, some more so than others, and superficially, spending lots of time creating cheats like this looks like it's leading to social approval and standing. I feel like sitting inside at your computer working on cheats isn't the best way to "show off to potential mates".
- mnowicki 7y ago
  I think it's more about the validation received from other peoples giving the cheat-maker an ego boost, which is real to them regardless of whether the people using their cheats are truly giving them any meaningful credit. That aside, I'm not sure exactly what you mean by social credit, but in some communities the creators of hacks and cheats(at least the people making fun, constructive cheats - not aimbots and the like) are highly esteemed. They are regarded somewhere alongside competitive players/speedrunners but in a more shadowy background roll(which many people may find cooler/more valuable). They also tend to have universal support among the community rather than being on one team or the other like, for example, tournament players. This is all true in the communities I've witnessed at least, I don't play many esport type games though.
- galkk 7y ago
  I think that you're underestimating what online fame, for being best, can bring to people. High profile Fortnite/Apex Legends/CS:GO etc gamer could make significant money on streaming, and there were quite a high profile gamers caught using aimbots/wallhacks etc.

jerf 7y ago

"People make cheats for money, for online infamy, and for the challenge of it" In all seriousness, I think there's a non-trivial aspect to it where human psychology is misfiring in the modern era. Certain people, mostly younger, have a drive to show off to potential mates, some more so than others, and superficially, spending lots of time creating cheats like this looks like it's leading to social approval and standing. You get lots of "thanks" and "kudos". But in reality, you're getting nothing. It doesn't work. People are willing to use the output, but whether rational on some level or not, I don't think you are really getting social credit for it, and even to the extent you are, it's far too widely dispersed to be any good. (That is, it may not exactly be useless to convince a million people to think slightly good of you, but harvesting that for any benefit is really tricky, whereas conclusively convincing someone you are a good person can be beneficial in all sorts of ways and is the basis of any number of relationships.) In grad school, I worked on an open source LCMS that spent a lot of time fighting people helping other students cheat on their homework. Instead of just solving their homework problem, the cheaters would solve the whole meta-problem (all the variants we might serve) and hand out the meta-solution. This requires a great deal more effort than just solving the individual problem alone. What was funny to me is... I don't think it actually got them anything. Nobody cares. They'll use your solution, but for all that work you get very little real social currency. The majority of your "customer base" is getting it from their friend, who got it from their friend, and the origin of the cheat isn't even known by probably the majority using it. Same sort of thing. Unfortunately, this is effectively unsolvable. By the time you hypothetically educate one group that this isn't useful, next year's group is already here. (Also, to be clear, I'm not saying this is all the reason, merely a less-explored one, and a sufficient one on its own to be a source of significant cheating.)

yutuytuyt 7y ago
>reality, you're getting nothing. It doesn't work Some people do it just to challenge themselves or to learn Free software wouldnt exist if everybody used your approach. You sounds as if you tried to say that putting effort into something without $$ as result is bad?
- jerf 7y ago
  The fact that I think people are doing something for a given reason does not imply that reason is the only reason that thing is done, that other reasons to do that thing are invalid, or that other things done for the same reason are invalid. Dollars didn't even come up in my post. I think you read what you were expecting to read rather than what I wrote.
saagarjha 7y ago
> Certain people, mostly younger, have a drive to show off to potential mates, some more so than others, and superficially, spending lots of time creating cheats like this looks like it's leading to social approval and standing. I feel like sitting inside at your computer working on cheats isn't the best way to "show off to potential mates".
mnowicki 7y ago
I think it's more about the validation received from other peoples giving the cheat-maker an ego boost, which is real to them regardless of whether the people using their cheats are truly giving them any meaningful credit. That aside, I'm not sure exactly what you mean by social credit, but in some communities the creators of hacks and cheats(at least the people making fun, constructive cheats - not aimbots and the like) are highly esteemed. They are regarded somewhere alongside competitive players/speedrunners but in a more shadowy background roll(which many people may find cooler/more valuable). They also tend to have universal support among the community rather than being on one team or the other like, for example, tournament players. This is all true in the communities I've witnessed at least, I don't play many esport type games though.
galkk 7y ago
I think that you're underestimating what online fame, for being best, can bring to people. High profile Fortnite/Apex Legends/CS:GO etc gamer could make significant money on streaming, and there were quite a high profile gamers caught using aimbots/wallhacks etc.