4 ms·

Will that help at all? The VPN itself will keep track of all your activity, just a warrant away, that’s how they make real money.

by jiofih 7y ago

jchw 7y ago
>The VPN itself will keep track of all your activity - The trouble here is that the ISP is in the same country as your police. Having a VPN that is in a different jurisdiction requires international warrants. (IANAL.) - Mullvad claims they do not log, as many VPN providers. I have a tin foil hat usually but I think their track record warrants an unusual amount of trust. - You can also do multi hop through Wireguard, if you’re into that kind of thing. >just a warrant away, that’s how they make real money. Now that is unbelievable. You are suggesting to me that the police are paying VPNs for logs? Why would they pay if they have a warrant? I don’t think the data that ISPs or VPNs have is actually worth that much. For VPNs most of it is probably genuinely torrent traffic and HTTPS traffic. Even DNS can be encrypted nowadays (and should be imo.) It’s one thing to say they are selling logs, but it’s hard to believe that’s where they make the real money from. And either way, it’s a completely unsourced claim.
- allovernow 7y ago
  >Now that is unbelievable. You are suggesting to me that the police are paying VPNs for logs? Why would they pay if they have a warrant? I'm not leaning in either direction here but worth noting that warrants are hard to get without evidence. Illegally obtained information can be used for ostensibly legal targeting, pre-warrant. It's a dangerous, clandestine abuse of power called parallel construction [1]. 1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_construction https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_construction
  - jchw 7y ago
    I know parallel construction exists. But I highly doubt VPN services make their 'real' money selling logs.
  - blackearl 7y ago
    I find that hard to believe these days. It seems that getting a warrant is easier than ever. https://apnews.com/a2b48c6f1911472986b0e501bdca9f25 https://apnews.com/a2b48c6f1911472986b0e501bdca9f25 - Most Utah warrants approved in less than 3 minutes
- jiofih 7y ago
  They sell your activity to data mining companies, retargeting, and ad replacements you’ll never notice; also your email and related profile to marketers. They have your logs. Not having them is a huge liability for them, you have absolutely zero reason to believe they don’t. https://thenextweb.com/insider/2017/10/10/purevpns-non-existent-logs-used-to-track-arrest-alleged-internet-stalker/ https://thenextweb.com/insider/2017/10/10/purevpns-non-exist...
  - onychomys 7y ago
    Here's the HN discussion about that case [0]. The VPN service was keeping logs of when you signed on and off, not of where you were visiting. The FBI used those timestamps to validate what they already knew from the guy. There was never any working backwards to find an original IP from some VPN-assisted visit. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15432827 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15432827
SamBam 7y ago
Can you elaborate on the "that’s how they make real money" part? Do they charge LEOs for complying with a warrant?

Will that help at all? The VPN itself will keep track of all your activity, just a warrant away, that’s how they make real money.

by jiofih 7y ago

Will that help at all? The VPN itself will keep track of all your activity, just a warrant away, that’s how they make real money.

jchw 7y ago

>The VPN itself will keep track of all your activity - The trouble here is that the ISP is in the same country as your police. Having a VPN that is in a different jurisdiction requires international warrants. (IANAL.) - Mullvad claims they do not log, as many VPN providers. I have a tin foil hat usually but I think their track record warrants an unusual amount of trust. - You can also do multi hop through Wireguard, if you’re into that kind of thing. >just a warrant away, that’s how they make real money. Now that is unbelievable. You are suggesting to me that the police are paying VPNs for logs? Why would they pay if they have a warrant? I don’t think the data that ISPs or VPNs have is actually worth that much. For VPNs most of it is probably genuinely torrent traffic and HTTPS traffic. Even DNS can be encrypted nowadays (and should be imo.) It’s one thing to say they are selling logs, but it’s hard to believe that’s where they make the real money from. And either way, it’s a completely unsourced claim.

allovernow 7y ago
>Now that is unbelievable. You are suggesting to me that the police are paying VPNs for logs? Why would they pay if they have a warrant? I'm not leaning in either direction here but worth noting that warrants are hard to get without evidence. Illegally obtained information can be used for ostensibly legal targeting, pre-warrant. It's a dangerous, clandestine abuse of power called parallel construction [1]. 1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_construction https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_construction
- jchw 7y ago
  I know parallel construction exists. But I highly doubt VPN services make their 'real' money selling logs.
- blackearl 7y ago
  I find that hard to believe these days. It seems that getting a warrant is easier than ever. https://apnews.com/a2b48c6f1911472986b0e501bdca9f25 https://apnews.com/a2b48c6f1911472986b0e501bdca9f25 - Most Utah warrants approved in less than 3 minutes
jiofih 7y ago
They sell your activity to data mining companies, retargeting, and ad replacements you’ll never notice; also your email and related profile to marketers. They have your logs. Not having them is a huge liability for them, you have absolutely zero reason to believe they don’t. https://thenextweb.com/insider/2017/10/10/purevpns-non-existent-logs-used-to-track-arrest-alleged-internet-stalker/ https://thenextweb.com/insider/2017/10/10/purevpns-non-exist...
- onychomys 7y ago
  Here's the HN discussion about that case [0]. The VPN service was keeping logs of when you signed on and off, not of where you were visiting. The FBI used those timestamps to validate what they already knew from the guy. There was never any working backwards to find an original IP from some VPN-assisted visit. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15432827 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15432827

SamBam 7y ago

Can you elaborate on the "that’s how they make real money" part? Do they charge LEOs for complying with a warrant?