11 ms·

Intel, Lenovo spread foldable computer fever at CES

27 points by lelf 7y ago

dang 7y ago
Related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21989049 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21989049
frereubu 7y ago
I can’t help but think, when I read things like this, that laptops are already foldable. I don’t get why people want the screen to be foldable too. I haven’t seen a use case that’s gelled for me, but perhaps I’m just missing the point and it’s just about technojoy.
- Someone1234 7y ago
  More screen real estate. For example you could have a laptop screens that opens horizontally, a normally positioned keyboard, and almost double your usable screen real estate on the road. Akin to this: https://odditymall.com/slidenjoy-laptop-slides https://odditymall.com/slidenjoy-laptop-slides
simias 7y ago
I could definitely use that, you have a small laptop you can easily carry around (assuming that the magnetic keyboard thingy is actually half decent) and then when I'm somewhere with a little more room I can unfold it into a large monitor and use a proper keyboard. That seems like a good compromise.
dangus 7y ago
I would have been extremely negative on this Lenovo machine if it didn’t have the keyboard docking solution that it does have. I have to admit that it’s clever and practical. What the machine needs is a way for the fully folded out display to stand itself up at a comfortable viewing angle. One thing I’m concerned about is the hardware-first mentality that OEMs have taken to foldable designs. The whole experience needs to make its advantages and use case more plainly obvious. To that end, you can tell by the demo video that Windows isn’t customized nearly enough to make this a pleasant experience. Windows still isn’t a touch experience that I’ve seen anyone use in the wild because the bulk of its utility is with legacy style Windows applications that demand precise cursor movement and keyboard shortcuts. Every single person I’ve seen using a Surface Pro at coffee shops has been using it in “laptop mode.” To this end, this device should be answering the question of “Why should I buy this over a cheaper XPS 13 or MacBook Air that fits in my backpack just fine?” With this computer’s minuscule keyboard and touchpad along with a digital drawing experience that can’t be any good I’m just not sure who this product is meant to appeal to. Products like this ask the question “What hardware can we build?” But the correct question is “How do we make something that people will love to use and want to own?” Foldable devices are in danger of being the 3D or curved TV of the 2020s. I think the most likely outcome will be us sitting here in five years wondering why anyone thought that foldable devices were a good idea.
- swebs 7y ago
  >You can tell by the demo video that a Windows isn’t customized nearly enough to make this a pleasant experience. A really cool demo would have been to show off this laptop form factor by using Linux with a tiling window manager such as i3wm. Having it automatically split or rearrange panes when a fold is detected would be really cool. Unfortunately, Lenovo seems to be quite a bit behind the likes of Dell, System76, Pureism, etc in creating developer editions (read: shipped with Linux).
  - dangus 7y ago
    Absolutely! When I saw the operating system making zero changes to the lock screen as it was unfolded, zero changes when the keyboard was placed on top of the magnetic mount, that’s when I knew the product was dead in the water.
- cptskippy 7y ago
  > Windows still isn’t a touch experience that I’ve seen anyone use in the wild because the bulk of its utility is with legacy style Windows applications that demand precise cursor movement and keyboard shortcuts. Every single person I’ve seen using a Surface Pro at coffee shops has been using it in “laptop mode.” The reality is that the keyboard is still the best way to transfer large amount of data from your head to your hard drive. Touch in Windows is great, I love it. I use it all the time. It's another tool, like the mouse. If you took it away then I'd be pissed. And just like the mouse, it doesn't replace the keyboard.
  - romwell 7y ago
    I'm still waiting for a Surface with a keyboard that's sturdy enough to hold the screen (making the kickstand unnecessary), and perhaps holding an extra battery. Yes, I still don't get why the 10" laptops don't come in a clamshell form factor.
    - cptskippy 7y ago
      Isn't the Surface Book what you're describing?
hajile 7y ago
I think a separate roll-up display would be nicer. Pull out a tube, unroll your 34" ultra-widescreen display and work.
- criddell 7y ago
  I want an actual foldable display. These seem like they are merely bendable. Think back to the time when people actually bought paper maps and newspapers. You would take the map, find the area of interest, then fold it up so that you could see what you needed. Obviously a display can show anything anywhere, but the idea of being able to take a large display and fold it to the perfect size for the circumstances would be pretty neat.
  - orev 7y ago
    I just don’t see how bendable or foldable displays are in any way durable. Bending like this is one thing, but truly folding something damages it. Even simple paper starts to fall apart after a few times folding and unfolding. There’s no way a complex display device would be able to survive 1000s of cycles.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - criddell 7y ago
      Make it out of some type of fabrics. They stand up much better to folding than paper or plastic.
netsharc 7y ago
15 years ago flexible displays were probably fantasy. Now there are consumer products (Edit: ah, the laptops are concepts, but Samsung and Motorola have phones!) using them. We do really live in the future...
- psv1 7y ago
  Flexible and foldable products are so underwhelming. At this point they seem like something being developed just for the sake of demonstrating that it's possible. If the goal is to make attractive products, they're failing spectacularly.
  - mxcrossb 7y ago
    The big tech companies’ only advantage is that they can manufacture more complex tech. Their goal is to move what users want towards things that are hard to build, not necessarily what users would naturally want.
    - psv1 7y ago
      > The big tech companies’ only advantage is that they can manufacture more complex tech. Only advantage? What about the already established user base, decades of experience, brand recognition, and giant piles of money? And I'm sure that I'm leaving out other important factors. > Their goal is to move what users want towards things that are hard to build Is there any evidence for this? Obviously there will be some incentive for this but that's not the same as being their goal.
  - Jonnax 7y ago
    The first generation iPhone was a bit clunky, a Nokia N95 could do so much more...
    - rusticpenn 7y ago
      But it was definetely not underwhelming.
    - 7y ago
swebs 7y ago
Eh, I'm having a hard time finding what advantage this would actually give you.
- lallysingh 7y ago
  In cramped quarters, a regular 12"ish laptop. When you have extra desk space, it's a desktop with a 17" display.
  - me_me_me 7y ago
    > it's a desktop with a 17" display. With a crease in the middle.
    - lallysingh 7y ago
      What crease?
      - me_me_me 7y ago
        all fordable screens so far have visible fold crease at the fold point
  - tasogare 7y ago
    It’s a bad laptop because you need a separate keyboard to use it (typing on screen is hard). So it fails at the both usage you listed.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
  - lm28469 7y ago
    Now you have to ask yourself how many times in your life you had this exact problem. And if you did have this problem how big of a deal is it for your quality of life. It's a solution looking for a problem, at least in that form / the consumer market.
diftraku 7y ago
Finally they came up with the interactive book from the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (the one from the 2005 movie). Only thing missing is the LCARS-esque interface to Wikipedia and custom case with the book cover look to it.
chadlavi 7y ago
Why would I ever want a laptop with a software keyboard?
mapcars 7y ago
Interesting I think it requires a lot of software changes to support such screen layouts and changes (in case of physical keyboard)
bromonkey 7y ago
I'm over here just wanting a laptop that isn't so thin it feels like it's going to snap in half every time I pick it up and has a battery that lets it run for more than 5 hours. Maybe one day the future will bless us with computers that are portable and usable.
- penagwin 7y ago
  I'm not saying you should buy a Mac - just recounting my experience. I was iffy on macs for a long time, but after using a MacBook pro (2019 maybe?) it's reaaaaal nice. It's light and thin, but it feels like it's solid chunk of metal. Battery life is great, etc. My personal laptop is a yoga y720 15in, and while its amazing too, it just doesn't have the same level of "polish" if we're talking about how it feels in the hand.
- selectodude 7y ago
  That definitely exists. My laptop is an inch thick and lasts ten hours with a quad core CPU and a high resolution screen.
  - kjeetgill 7y ago
    Don't leave us hanging! What laptop do you have?
    - selectodude 7y ago
      It’s a 15” MacBook Pro.

27 points by lelf 7y ago

dang 7y ago

Related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21989049 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21989049

I can’t help but think, when I read things like this, that laptops are already foldable. I don’t get why people want the screen to be foldable too. I haven’t seen a use case that’s gelled for me, but perhaps I’m just missing the point and it’s just about technojoy.

Someone1234 7y ago
More screen real estate. For example you could have a laptop screens that opens horizontally, a normally positioned keyboard, and almost double your usable screen real estate on the road. Akin to this: https://odditymall.com/slidenjoy-laptop-slides https://odditymall.com/slidenjoy-laptop-slides

simias 7y ago

I could definitely use that, you have a small laptop you can easily carry around (assuming that the magnetic keyboard thingy is actually half decent) and then when I'm somewhere with a little more room I can unfold it into a large monitor and use a proper keyboard. That seems like a good compromise.

dangus 7y ago

I would have been extremely negative on this Lenovo machine if it didn’t have the keyboard docking solution that it does have. I have to admit that it’s clever and practical. What the machine needs is a way for the fully folded out display to stand itself up at a comfortable viewing angle. One thing I’m concerned about is the hardware-first mentality that OEMs have taken to foldable designs. The whole experience needs to make its advantages and use case more plainly obvious. To that end, you can tell by the demo video that Windows isn’t customized nearly enough to make this a pleasant experience. Windows still isn’t a touch experience that I’ve seen anyone use in the wild because the bulk of its utility is with legacy style Windows applications that demand precise cursor movement and keyboard shortcuts. Every single person I’ve seen using a Surface Pro at coffee shops has been using it in “laptop mode.” To this end, this device should be answering the question of “Why should I buy this over a cheaper XPS 13 or MacBook Air that fits in my backpack just fine?” With this computer’s minuscule keyboard and touchpad along with a digital drawing experience that can’t be any good I’m just not sure who this product is meant to appeal to. Products like this ask the question “What hardware can we build?” But the correct question is “How do we make something that people will love to use and want to own?” Foldable devices are in danger of being the 3D or curved TV of the 2020s. I think the most likely outcome will be us sitting here in five years wondering why anyone thought that foldable devices were a good idea.

swebs 7y ago
>You can tell by the demo video that a Windows isn’t customized nearly enough to make this a pleasant experience. A really cool demo would have been to show off this laptop form factor by using Linux with a tiling window manager such as i3wm. Having it automatically split or rearrange panes when a fold is detected would be really cool. Unfortunately, Lenovo seems to be quite a bit behind the likes of Dell, System76, Pureism, etc in creating developer editions (read: shipped with Linux).
- dangus 7y ago
  Absolutely! When I saw the operating system making zero changes to the lock screen as it was unfolded, zero changes when the keyboard was placed on top of the magnetic mount, that’s when I knew the product was dead in the water.
cptskippy 7y ago
> Windows still isn’t a touch experience that I’ve seen anyone use in the wild because the bulk of its utility is with legacy style Windows applications that demand precise cursor movement and keyboard shortcuts. Every single person I’ve seen using a Surface Pro at coffee shops has been using it in “laptop mode.” The reality is that the keyboard is still the best way to transfer large amount of data from your head to your hard drive. Touch in Windows is great, I love it. I use it all the time. It's another tool, like the mouse. If you took it away then I'd be pissed. And just like the mouse, it doesn't replace the keyboard.
- romwell 7y ago
  I'm still waiting for a Surface with a keyboard that's sturdy enough to hold the screen (making the kickstand unnecessary), and perhaps holding an extra battery. Yes, I still don't get why the 10" laptops don't come in a clamshell form factor.
  - cptskippy 7y ago
    Isn't the Surface Book what you're describing?

hajile 7y ago

I think a separate roll-up display would be nicer. Pull out a tube, unroll your 34" ultra-widescreen display and work.

criddell 7y ago
I want an actual foldable display. These seem like they are merely bendable. Think back to the time when people actually bought paper maps and newspapers. You would take the map, find the area of interest, then fold it up so that you could see what you needed. Obviously a display can show anything anywhere, but the idea of being able to take a large display and fold it to the perfect size for the circumstances would be pretty neat.
- orev 7y ago
  I just don’t see how bendable or foldable displays are in any way durable. Bending like this is one thing, but truly folding something damages it. Even simple paper starts to fall apart after a few times folding and unfolding. There’s no way a complex display device would be able to survive 1000s of cycles.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - criddell 7y ago
    Make it out of some type of fabrics. They stand up much better to folding than paper or plastic.

netsharc 7y ago

15 years ago flexible displays were probably fantasy. Now there are consumer products (Edit: ah, the laptops are concepts, but Samsung and Motorola have phones!) using them. We do really live in the future...

psv1 7y ago
Flexible and foldable products are so underwhelming. At this point they seem like something being developed just for the sake of demonstrating that it's possible. If the goal is to make attractive products, they're failing spectacularly.
- mxcrossb 7y ago
  The big tech companies’ only advantage is that they can manufacture more complex tech. Their goal is to move what users want towards things that are hard to build, not necessarily what users would naturally want.
  - psv1 7y ago
    > The big tech companies’ only advantage is that they can manufacture more complex tech. Only advantage? What about the already established user base, decades of experience, brand recognition, and giant piles of money? And I'm sure that I'm leaving out other important factors. > Their goal is to move what users want towards things that are hard to build Is there any evidence for this? Obviously there will be some incentive for this but that's not the same as being their goal.
- Jonnax 7y ago
  The first generation iPhone was a bit clunky, a Nokia N95 could do so much more...
  - rusticpenn 7y ago
    But it was definetely not underwhelming.
  - 7y ago

swebs 7y ago

Eh, I'm having a hard time finding what advantage this would actually give you.

lallysingh 7y ago
In cramped quarters, a regular 12"ish laptop. When you have extra desk space, it's a desktop with a 17" display.
- me_me_me 7y ago
  > it's a desktop with a 17" display. With a crease in the middle.
  - lallysingh 7y ago
    What crease?
    - me_me_me 7y ago
      all fordable screens so far have visible fold crease at the fold point
- tasogare 7y ago
  It’s a bad laptop because you need a separate keyboard to use it (typing on screen is hard). So it fails at the both usage you listed.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- lm28469 7y ago
  Now you have to ask yourself how many times in your life you had this exact problem. And if you did have this problem how big of a deal is it for your quality of life. It's a solution looking for a problem, at least in that form / the consumer market.

diftraku 7y ago

Finally they came up with the interactive book from the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (the one from the 2005 movie). Only thing missing is the LCARS-esque interface to Wikipedia and custom case with the book cover look to it.

chadlavi 7y ago

Why would I ever want a laptop with a software keyboard?

mapcars 7y ago

Interesting I think it requires a lot of software changes to support such screen layouts and changes (in case of physical keyboard)

bromonkey 7y ago

I'm over here just wanting a laptop that isn't so thin it feels like it's going to snap in half every time I pick it up and has a battery that lets it run for more than 5 hours. Maybe one day the future will bless us with computers that are portable and usable.

penagwin 7y ago
I'm not saying you should buy a Mac - just recounting my experience. I was iffy on macs for a long time, but after using a MacBook pro (2019 maybe?) it's reaaaaal nice. It's light and thin, but it feels like it's solid chunk of metal. Battery life is great, etc. My personal laptop is a yoga y720 15in, and while its amazing too, it just doesn't have the same level of "polish" if we're talking about how it feels in the hand.
selectodude 7y ago
That definitely exists. My laptop is an inch thick and lasts ten hours with a quad core CPU and a high resolution screen.
- kjeetgill 7y ago
  Don't leave us hanging! What laptop do you have?
  - selectodude 7y ago
    It’s a 15” MacBook Pro.