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I served on the sister ship of the Vincennes in the early 90 and knew some guys who were in her combat info center when that went down. The Airbus had turned of

by mikece 7y ago

I served on the sister ship of the Vincennes in the early 90 and knew some guys who were in her combat info center when that went down. The Airbus had turned off civilian squawk and was in a dive directly at the Vincennes — hardly what civilian airliners are supposed to do. Then again, even in a dive an Airbus can’t go as fast as an F-14 in a vertical climb so while the maneuver was provocative it didn’t fit the military jet attack profile, something the Iranians knew as well. Both sides screw with each other during a Cold War and usually lives aren’t lost. This was a huge, unfortunate exception.

halflings 7y ago
Huh. Why wouldn't the US show proof of this? Seems pretty easy to do. From the page: > According to the Iranian government, the cruiser negligently shot down the aircraft, which was transmitting IFF squawks in Mode III, a signal that identified it as a civilian aircraft, and not Mode II as used by Iranian military aircraft. Given the US response (diplomatic note from Reagan), it seems that the error was on the USS Vincennes, not the Iranians.
- duelingjello 7y ago
  Basically every US Navy ship with radar constantly records radar data. It would be easy to demonstrate the aircraft’s flight profile to exonerate the ship. Hiding it means they’re hiding the truth.
- thrill 7y ago
  Most military aircraft have Mode 1,2,3,4, and now 5, all of various capabilities, of which Mode 3/A (with altitude reporting) is also in common use by non-military aircraft. "Squawking" a particular mode, and code in the mode, only means it has been set in the cockpit. An Iranian F-14 would most certainly had both a Mode 2 and Mode 3 capability, so no, an Mode 3 code does not identify it as civilian.
mlyle 7y ago
> The Airbus had turned off civilian squawk and was in a dive directly at the Vincennes — hardly what civilian airliners are supposed to do. Vs the Navy's report: FORMAL INVESTIGATION INTO THE CIRCUMSTANCES SURROUNDING THE DOWNING OF IRAN AIR FLIGHT 655 ON 3 JULY 1988 https://www.jag.navy.mil/library/investigations/VINCENNES%20INV.pdf https://www.jag.navy.mil/library/investigations/VINCENNES%20... > Iran Air Flight 655 took off on runway 21 (heading 210 degrees true), was directed by the Bandar Abbas Tower to squawk IFF mode III code 6760, and began a normal climb out to assigned altitude of 14,000 feet for the flight, which lasted a total of 7 minutes before the plane was hit by the missiles from USS VINCENNES. The pilot remained within the Amber 59 air corridor (20 miles wide, 10 miles each side of centerline), made a routine position report to Bandar Abbas departure control at approximately 0654Z, and was ascending through 12,000 feet at a speed of approximately 380 kts at the time of making his report. > 5. ($) At approximately 0654Z, the missiles fired from USS VINCENNES impacted the aircraft at an altitude of 13,500 feet, Basically, both the data recovered from Vincennes and the actual timeline of events precludes '655 having descended. This accident is a (the?) textbook case of "scenario fulfillment" where people under pressure have a warped vision of reality matching a scenario they've seen in training.
liability 7y ago
I wonder if they were merely lying to you, or of they were lying to themselves too. Sometimes people deceive themselves because they can't cope with the truth. To be clear, the people who told you those things were not telling the truth.

by mikece 7y ago

halflings 7y ago

Huh. Why wouldn't the US show proof of this? Seems pretty easy to do. From the page: > According to the Iranian government, the cruiser negligently shot down the aircraft, which was transmitting IFF squawks in Mode III, a signal that identified it as a civilian aircraft, and not Mode II as used by Iranian military aircraft. Given the US response (diplomatic note from Reagan), it seems that the error was on the USS Vincennes, not the Iranians.

duelingjello 7y ago
Basically every US Navy ship with radar constantly records radar data. It would be easy to demonstrate the aircraft’s flight profile to exonerate the ship. Hiding it means they’re hiding the truth.
thrill 7y ago
Most military aircraft have Mode 1,2,3,4, and now 5, all of various capabilities, of which Mode 3/A (with altitude reporting) is also in common use by non-military aircraft. "Squawking" a particular mode, and code in the mode, only means it has been set in the cockpit. An Iranian F-14 would most certainly had both a Mode 2 and Mode 3 capability, so no, an Mode 3 code does not identify it as civilian.

mlyle 7y ago

> The Airbus had turned off civilian squawk and was in a dive directly at the Vincennes — hardly what civilian airliners are supposed to do. Vs the Navy's report: FORMAL INVESTIGATION INTO THE CIRCUMSTANCES SURROUNDING THE DOWNING OF IRAN AIR FLIGHT 655 ON 3 JULY 1988 https://www.jag.navy.mil/library/investigations/VINCENNES%20INV.pdf https://www.jag.navy.mil/library/investigations/VINCENNES%20... > Iran Air Flight 655 took off on runway 21 (heading 210 degrees true), was directed by the Bandar Abbas Tower to squawk IFF mode III code 6760, and began a normal climb out to assigned altitude of 14,000 feet for the flight, which lasted a total of 7 minutes before the plane was hit by the missiles from USS VINCENNES. The pilot remained within the Amber 59 air corridor (20 miles wide, 10 miles each side of centerline), made a routine position report to Bandar Abbas departure control at approximately 0654Z, and was ascending through 12,000 feet at a speed of approximately 380 kts at the time of making his report. > 5. ($) At approximately 0654Z, the missiles fired from USS VINCENNES impacted the aircraft at an altitude of 13,500 feet, Basically, both the data recovered from Vincennes and the actual timeline of events precludes '655 having descended. This accident is a (the?) textbook case of "scenario fulfillment" where people under pressure have a warped vision of reality matching a scenario they've seen in training.

liability 7y ago

I wonder if they were merely lying to you, or of they were lying to themselves too. Sometimes people deceive themselves because they can't cope with the truth. To be clear, the people who told you those things were not telling the truth.