4 ms·

This pales in comparison to the actual problem, climate change. There are people that deny it is happening while profiting from it, and those people are in posi

This pales in comparison to the actual problem, climate change. There are people that deny it is happening while profiting from it, and those people are in positions of power. A cumulative visualization of the scope of the fires that is being misinterpreted as real time is farting into a hurricane in comparison.

Mountain_Skies 7y ago
Using misleading images gives climate change deniers justification for their skepticism. One might think that doesn't matter because those people would never believe anyway but there are plenty of people on the fence who are going to see this false information about the scope of the fires as proof that those speaking about climate change are dishonest and have a hidden agenda. Credibility matters.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- dv_dt 7y ago
  Priorities also matter, one can't help but notice the BBC put work into this, but not in reporting in the links between drought fires and our climate crisis.
  - olivermarks 7y ago
    Strike Force Indarra https://www.theleader.com.au/story/6566610/police-strike-force-to-investigate-cause-of-bushfires/ https://www.theleader.com.au/story/6566610/police-strike-for...
    - throwaway5752 7y ago
      https://aic.gov.au/publications/rpp/rpp129/arson https://aic.gov.au/publications/rpp/rpp129/arson "Alternatively, a national figure can be obtained by aggregating publicly available data on arson that are available from each state and territory police jurisdiction. Based on these figures, there were approximately 14,975 incidents of arson recorded by police in 2011–12. This is likely to be an underestimate owing to the various ways in which different police jurisdictions define arson for statistical purposes, as well as the omission of unreported incidents. To estimate the number of arson incidents not reported to police, Mayhew (2003a, 2003b) used a multiplier of 3.0. Applying this to the above police recorded crime figure, in 2011–12 there were an estimated 44,925 incidents of arson." So there are about ~100 cases of arson per day in Australia in a given year. What is different about bush fires this year?
- PudgePacket 7y ago
  It goes both ways. People are using the "180 arrested for starting fires" as a reason to discredit the impact of climate change on the current situation. Though it's conveniently ignored that only a fraction of those were starting actual forest fires (eg not a BBQ...), and there have been arsonists every year.. they're not a new phenomenon.
mcantelon 7y ago
>This pales in comparison to the actual problem, climate change Seems a bit ideological to label climate change as "the actual problem" when 24 arsonists were caught, over the season, deliberately starting forest fires. Forest fires aren't a new thing but people deliberately starting them seems to be.
- lurgburg 7y ago
  > people deliberately starting them seems to be (seems to be a new thing) No? https://www.crimestatistics.vic.gov.au/media-centrenews/arson-offences-in-victoria https://www.crimestatistics.vic.gov.au/media-centrenews/arso... https://www.crimestatistics.vic.gov.au/crime-statisticshistorical-crime-datayear-ending-30-september-2016/spotlight-arson-offences https://www.crimestatistics.vic.gov.au/crime-statisticshisto... https://www.crimestatistics.vic.gov.au/sites/default/files/embridge_cache/emshare/system:original/public/2016/12/b7/8cf3034ea/Graph%201.jpg https://www.crimestatistics.vic.gov.au/sites/default/files/e... Arson is certainly a thing that happens but isn't suddenly drastically increasing for no reason. What is increasing is the rate at which those acts become extensive bushfires. Which is caused by drought drying out the land (increasing fuel). Which is linked to ... yep, climate change.
  - olivermarks 7y ago
    https://www.theleader.com.au/story/6566610/police-strike-force-to-investigate-cause-of-bushfires/ https://www.theleader.com.au/story/6566610/police-strike-for... Arson (and church desecration)tends to be under reported but is definitely a big problem.
    - olivermarks 7y ago
      interesting link initially about arsonists psychological state, examples http://davetrott.co.uk/2019/02/stop-arson-about/ http://davetrott.co.uk/2019/02/stop-arson-about/
  - mcantelon 7y ago
    Are those stats on people deliberately setting forest fires, something much more serious than garden variety arson? >What is increasing is the rate at which those acts become extensive bushfires According to MSM 24 were charged with "deliberately lighting bushfires", not committing garden variety arson that metastasized into bushfires. Forest fires have always been easy to start, if one wanted to, but people intentionally attempting to do so seems unusual.

Mountain_Skies 7y ago

Using misleading images gives climate change deniers justification for their skepticism. One might think that doesn't matter because those people would never believe anyway but there are plenty of people on the fence who are going to see this false information about the scope of the fires as proof that those speaking about climate change are dishonest and have a hidden agenda. Credibility matters.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
dv_dt 7y ago
Priorities also matter, one can't help but notice the BBC put work into this, but not in reporting in the links between drought fires and our climate crisis.
- olivermarks 7y ago
  Strike Force Indarra https://www.theleader.com.au/story/6566610/police-strike-force-to-investigate-cause-of-bushfires/ https://www.theleader.com.au/story/6566610/police-strike-for...
  - throwaway5752 7y ago
    https://aic.gov.au/publications/rpp/rpp129/arson https://aic.gov.au/publications/rpp/rpp129/arson "Alternatively, a national figure can be obtained by aggregating publicly available data on arson that are available from each state and territory police jurisdiction. Based on these figures, there were approximately 14,975 incidents of arson recorded by police in 2011–12. This is likely to be an underestimate owing to the various ways in which different police jurisdictions define arson for statistical purposes, as well as the omission of unreported incidents. To estimate the number of arson incidents not reported to police, Mayhew (2003a, 2003b) used a multiplier of 3.0. Applying this to the above police recorded crime figure, in 2011–12 there were an estimated 44,925 incidents of arson." So there are about ~100 cases of arson per day in Australia in a given year. What is different about bush fires this year?
PudgePacket 7y ago
It goes both ways. People are using the "180 arrested for starting fires" as a reason to discredit the impact of climate change on the current situation. Though it's conveniently ignored that only a fraction of those were starting actual forest fires (eg not a BBQ...), and there have been arsonists every year.. they're not a new phenomenon.

mcantelon 7y ago

>This pales in comparison to the actual problem, climate change Seems a bit ideological to label climate change as "the actual problem" when 24 arsonists were caught, over the season, deliberately starting forest fires. Forest fires aren't a new thing but people deliberately starting them seems to be.

lurgburg 7y ago
> people deliberately starting them seems to be (seems to be a new thing) No? https://www.crimestatistics.vic.gov.au/media-centrenews/arson-offences-in-victoria https://www.crimestatistics.vic.gov.au/media-centrenews/arso... https://www.crimestatistics.vic.gov.au/crime-statisticshistorical-crime-datayear-ending-30-september-2016/spotlight-arson-offences https://www.crimestatistics.vic.gov.au/crime-statisticshisto... https://www.crimestatistics.vic.gov.au/sites/default/files/embridge_cache/emshare/system:original/public/2016/12/b7/8cf3034ea/Graph%201.jpg https://www.crimestatistics.vic.gov.au/sites/default/files/e... Arson is certainly a thing that happens but isn't suddenly drastically increasing for no reason. What is increasing is the rate at which those acts become extensive bushfires. Which is caused by drought drying out the land (increasing fuel). Which is linked to ... yep, climate change.
- olivermarks 7y ago
  https://www.theleader.com.au/story/6566610/police-strike-force-to-investigate-cause-of-bushfires/ https://www.theleader.com.au/story/6566610/police-strike-for... Arson (and church desecration)tends to be under reported but is definitely a big problem.
  - olivermarks 7y ago
    interesting link initially about arsonists psychological state, examples http://davetrott.co.uk/2019/02/stop-arson-about/ http://davetrott.co.uk/2019/02/stop-arson-about/
- mcantelon 7y ago
  Are those stats on people deliberately setting forest fires, something much more serious than garden variety arson? >What is increasing is the rate at which those acts become extensive bushfires According to MSM 24 were charged with "deliberately lighting bushfires", not committing garden variety arson that metastasized into bushfires. Forest fires have always been easy to start, if one wanted to, but people intentionally attempting to do so seems unusual.