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> Amtrak moves 10 million through Penn Station a year. Who cares? I already said I don't care about the NJTransit, LIRR, Amtrak numbers. I can accept 110 milli

> Amtrak moves 10 million through Penn Station a year. Who cares? I already said I don't care about the NJTransit, LIRR, Amtrak numbers. I can accept 110 million from those sources. What I said was that the the NYC metro numbers was missing. > That's 30% of the entire metro population. Yes. And .9 million is the entire metro population of zurich. I was trying to measure likes with likes. That's the point. > First, subtract everyone who actually lives in NYC except Queens: Why? Jesus, you are so invested in this that you build up straw man after straw man and bring up switzerland and US over and over again. For the last time, I'm talking about NYC and Zurich. Penn Station with Zurich's station. Go rant about your issues with US rail elsewhere. You act like only people from jersey, long island and connecticut use penn station. Penn Station is more than that. Ever hear of the empire state building? Ever hear of madison square garden? New Yorkers also traffic through Penn Station. If Zurich has more traffic, fine. I'm don't really care. You act like your life depends on whether Zurich or Penn Station has more traffic. My point is simply that given the actual raw numbers, it seems highly unlikely. Unless there is a data point we are missing or overlooking. My issue is with the validity of these numbers, your issue is you want to make the US look bad at all costs.

jcranmer 7y ago
> Who cares? You said there are 60 million tourists, presumably to emphasize just how much traffic you'd expect NYC to have proportionally to Zurich. I'm giving you hard numbers to try to explain why Zurich's station has higher ridership than NYC, which is what I assumed you cared about. > What I said was that the the NYC metro numbers was missing. There's 60 million per annum from the two Penn Station stops. That's unlinked trips, so I don't know how many are transfers to/from commuter rail or Amtrak. But my guess is at least 50%, since there's not much in the area besides Madison Square Garden and Empire State Building (which is easier to get to from Herald Square anyways, if you can reasonably pick your midtown trunk line). > Why? So I can put into context where the 50% of Penn Station traffic that comes from the LIRR comes from. > My point is simply that given the actual raw numbers, it seems highly unlikely. And I'm trying to explain, using actual numbers, why this is the case. Mere size can't be sufficient, else you would refuse to believe that Los Angeles Union Station doesn't even service 10 million people a year. So what do you want from me, if you don't want actual hard data, but refuse to believe that Penn Station is serving less traffic than Zurich's central station?

jcranmer 7y ago

> Who cares? You said there are 60 million tourists, presumably to emphasize just how much traffic you'd expect NYC to have proportionally to Zurich. I'm giving you hard numbers to try to explain why Zurich's station has higher ridership than NYC, which is what I assumed you cared about. > What I said was that the the NYC metro numbers was missing. There's 60 million per annum from the two Penn Station stops. That's unlinked trips, so I don't know how many are transfers to/from commuter rail or Amtrak. But my guess is at least 50%, since there's not much in the area besides Madison Square Garden and Empire State Building (which is easier to get to from Herald Square anyways, if you can reasonably pick your midtown trunk line). > Why? So I can put into context where the 50% of Penn Station traffic that comes from the LIRR comes from. > My point is simply that given the actual raw numbers, it seems highly unlikely. And I'm trying to explain, using actual numbers, why this is the case. Mere size can't be sufficient, else you would refuse to believe that Los Angeles Union Station doesn't even service 10 million people a year. So what do you want from me, if you don't want actual hard data, but refuse to believe that Penn Station is serving less traffic than Zurich's central station?