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> Absolute and insulting garbage. Whoever wrote this, edited it, approved it for release, and whoever posted it here, should be ashamed. Why. Because it doesn’

> Absolute and insulting garbage. Whoever wrote this, edited it, approved it for release, and whoever posted it here, should be ashamed. Why. Because it doesn’t support climate change?

SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
Here I would have thought the sheer number of people arrested across the country for intentionally starting fires would have been enough to silence anyone claiming this was climate change. Newscorp estimating 10% of the arsonists are under 10 years old. Edit: Ah, we’re taking trends over actual arrests. OK. My mistake.
- viraptor 7y ago
  Just in case someone actually still doesn't realise - this is a bullshit claim. (that arson is relevant in this situation) There are fires every year and they will happen. Climate change doesn't start fires. What it does is extends the fire season and makes forest management harder, which provides more fuel when the fire is burning.
  - SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
    https://abcnews.go.com/International/24-australians-arrested-deliberately-setting-fires-season/story?id=68108272 https://abcnews.go.com/International/24-australians-arrested... Seems like calling it bullshit is a little too all knowing for me. I’m going to go ahead with a scientific approach and not jump to conclusions. Edit: let’s not pretend this type of thing would be unheard of https://m.dw.com/en/australia-police-arrest-man-accused-of-starting-bushfires/a-51234527 https://m.dw.com/en/australia-police-arrest-man-accused-of-s... https://granitegrok.com/blog/2019/11/world-wildlife-federation-paid-70000-to-activists-who-set-fire-to-amazon-forest https://granitegrok.com/blog/2019/11/world-wildlife-federati...
    - viraptor 7y ago
      The number is correct. The relevance is bullshit. Australia will have fires every year, arson or not. It needs to keep them under control either way - which is related to climate and forest management. If arson can create out of control fires, so can lightning.
      - SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
        > relevance is bullshit Citation?
        viraptor 7y ago
        I'm not sure what you're looking for here. Fires are out of control. Have you got someone proving that fire caused by lightning could be controlled easier than fire started by arson? Basically if you claim they're relevant, it's on you to find an explanation how/why. Not on everyone else to disprove every possible theory. Otherwise we're stuck in gish gallop.
        SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
        Well clearly this is made worse by climate change! But... You keep saying that you KNOW the arson arrests are “bullshit” when taking about this. How are you making that claim? How do you know these fires are unrelated to two dozen arrests made? Please cite that.
        viraptor 7y ago
        You can't prove a negative. If they're connected and people have proof and it's relevant, they'd present it. And again, arson-related arrests are real and I'm not disputing them. This would not even be an interesting topic if it wasn't pushed so strongly on social media with a lot of bias. (Wasn't as interesting a decade ago when it was a firefighter starting fires) So let's do a reasonable thing and drop that whole thing until someone comes up with a credible proof, not a theory abused by bots and media.
- rrrhys 7y ago
  Newscorp should definitely not be your source for anything climate related. It's well documented that the Murdoch's (of Newscorp ownership) are part of IPA thinktank [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_of_Public_Affairs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_of_Public_Affairs] push to portray climate change as imaginary. IPA drives Murdoch properties, right wing and conservative talking heads and seemingly 99% of the 'oh the greenies did (that thing that was enacted by the government in power)' conversations.
- rrrhys 7y ago
  Arson has been stable for 24 months to September 2019, it's a shame the data capture stops there. It's made up to deflect. https://www.bocsar.nsw.gov.au/Documents/RCS-Quarterly/NSW_Recorded_Crime_Sept_2019.pdf https://www.bocsar.nsw.gov.au/Documents/RCS-Quarterly/NSW_Re... crime / 2018 / 2019 / Trend Arson / 5,692 / 4,934 / Stable
  - mcantelon 7y ago
    >Arson has been stable for 24 months Trends regarding arson in general may or may not correlate with a specific arson niche.
    - rrrhys 7y ago
      I agree. It's also really hard data to find. A faction of our media is running with it as cold hard fact anyway that a new wave of arson is completely the cause of our current crisis.
- nl 7y ago
  But every year people start fires. Just Google "<year> bushfire firebug arrested" This is just grabbing the first news story from each one: 2014: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-21/youths-arrested-for-lighting-a-bush-fire-during-total-fire-ban/5829804 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-21/youths-arrested-for-l... 2015: https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/australia/three-teenage-firebugs-arrested-in-vic-ng-4820b8356b2bf1b1ef2b1d00affa6271 https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/australia/three-teenage-fir... 2016: https://www.naracoorteherald.com.au/story/4238341/cfa-firebug-gets-extra-jail-time/ https://www.naracoorteherald.com.au/story/4238341/cfa-firebu... 2017: https://www.newcastleherald.com.au/story/4828025/updated-accused-firebug-granted-bail/ https://www.newcastleherald.com.au/story/4828025/updated-acc... 2018: https://www.pressreader.com/australia/shepparton-news/20180209/281805694384989 https://www.pressreader.com/australia/shepparton-news/201802... Some of the 2009 Black Saturday bushfire were deliberately lit too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Saturday_bushfires#Arson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Saturday_bushfires#Arson Arson isn't new. The difference now is the scale of the fires and how hard they have been to fight because of that scale.

> Absolute and insulting garbage. Whoever wrote this, edited it, approved it for release, and whoever posted it here, should be ashamed. Why. Because it doesn’t support climate change?

SlowRobotAhead 7y ago

Here I would have thought the sheer number of people arrested across the country for intentionally starting fires would have been enough to silence anyone claiming this was climate change. Newscorp estimating 10% of the arsonists are under 10 years old. Edit: Ah, we’re taking trends over actual arrests. OK. My mistake.

viraptor 7y ago
Just in case someone actually still doesn't realise - this is a bullshit claim. (that arson is relevant in this situation) There are fires every year and they will happen. Climate change doesn't start fires. What it does is extends the fire season and makes forest management harder, which provides more fuel when the fire is burning.
- SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
  https://abcnews.go.com/International/24-australians-arrested-deliberately-setting-fires-season/story?id=68108272 https://abcnews.go.com/International/24-australians-arrested... Seems like calling it bullshit is a little too all knowing for me. I’m going to go ahead with a scientific approach and not jump to conclusions. Edit: let’s not pretend this type of thing would be unheard of https://m.dw.com/en/australia-police-arrest-man-accused-of-starting-bushfires/a-51234527 https://m.dw.com/en/australia-police-arrest-man-accused-of-s... https://granitegrok.com/blog/2019/11/world-wildlife-federation-paid-70000-to-activists-who-set-fire-to-amazon-forest https://granitegrok.com/blog/2019/11/world-wildlife-federati...
  - viraptor 7y ago
    The number is correct. The relevance is bullshit. Australia will have fires every year, arson or not. It needs to keep them under control either way - which is related to climate and forest management. If arson can create out of control fires, so can lightning.
    - SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
      > relevance is bullshit Citation?
      - viraptor 7y ago
        I'm not sure what you're looking for here. Fires are out of control. Have you got someone proving that fire caused by lightning could be controlled easier than fire started by arson? Basically if you claim they're relevant, it's on you to find an explanation how/why. Not on everyone else to disprove every possible theory. Otherwise we're stuck in gish gallop.
        SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
        Well clearly this is made worse by climate change! But... You keep saying that you KNOW the arson arrests are “bullshit” when taking about this. How are you making that claim? How do you know these fires are unrelated to two dozen arrests made? Please cite that.
        viraptor 7y ago
        You can't prove a negative. If they're connected and people have proof and it's relevant, they'd present it. And again, arson-related arrests are real and I'm not disputing them. This would not even be an interesting topic if it wasn't pushed so strongly on social media with a lot of bias. (Wasn't as interesting a decade ago when it was a firefighter starting fires) So let's do a reasonable thing and drop that whole thing until someone comes up with a credible proof, not a theory abused by bots and media.
rrrhys 7y ago
Newscorp should definitely not be your source for anything climate related. It's well documented that the Murdoch's (of Newscorp ownership) are part of IPA thinktank [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_of_Public_Affairs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_of_Public_Affairs] push to portray climate change as imaginary. IPA drives Murdoch properties, right wing and conservative talking heads and seemingly 99% of the 'oh the greenies did (that thing that was enacted by the government in power)' conversations.
rrrhys 7y ago
Arson has been stable for 24 months to September 2019, it's a shame the data capture stops there. It's made up to deflect. https://www.bocsar.nsw.gov.au/Documents/RCS-Quarterly/NSW_Recorded_Crime_Sept_2019.pdf https://www.bocsar.nsw.gov.au/Documents/RCS-Quarterly/NSW_Re... crime / 2018 / 2019 / Trend Arson / 5,692 / 4,934 / Stable
- mcantelon 7y ago
  >Arson has been stable for 24 months Trends regarding arson in general may or may not correlate with a specific arson niche.
  - rrrhys 7y ago
    I agree. It's also really hard data to find. A faction of our media is running with it as cold hard fact anyway that a new wave of arson is completely the cause of our current crisis.
nl 7y ago
But every year people start fires. Just Google "<year> bushfire firebug arrested" This is just grabbing the first news story from each one: 2014: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-21/youths-arrested-for-lighting-a-bush-fire-during-total-fire-ban/5829804 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-21/youths-arrested-for-l... 2015: https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/australia/three-teenage-firebugs-arrested-in-vic-ng-4820b8356b2bf1b1ef2b1d00affa6271 https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/australia/three-teenage-fir... 2016: https://www.naracoorteherald.com.au/story/4238341/cfa-firebug-gets-extra-jail-time/ https://www.naracoorteherald.com.au/story/4238341/cfa-firebu... 2017: https://www.newcastleherald.com.au/story/4828025/updated-accused-firebug-granted-bail/ https://www.newcastleherald.com.au/story/4828025/updated-acc... 2018: https://www.pressreader.com/australia/shepparton-news/20180209/281805694384989 https://www.pressreader.com/australia/shepparton-news/201802... Some of the 2009 Black Saturday bushfire were deliberately lit too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Saturday_bushfires#Arson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Saturday_bushfires#Arson Arson isn't new. The difference now is the scale of the fires and how hard they have been to fight because of that scale.