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I googled it in 30 seconds. There are more too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Commission_into_Trade_Union_Governance_and_Corruption https://en.wikipedia.

I googled it in 30 seconds. There are more too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Commission_into_Trade_Union_Governance_and_Corruption https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Commission_into_Trade_Un... https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/2tsg3e/eli5_prounion_vs_antiunion_arguments/ https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/2tsg3e/e... Discrediting single instances of bad union behaviour is an endless game, there's a lot of history to draw from.

Apocryphon 7y ago
And there are endless instances of bad corporate behavior. So we are at an impasse.
- hinkley 7y ago
  Not when the orders of magnitude are different.
  - Apocryphon 7y ago
    Is there a study comparing corruption rates?
claudeganon 7y ago
This is just a logic error masquerading as an argument. Discrediting single instances of x’s behavior is an endless game, therefore all instances of x are bad. You haven’t provided anything inherent to unions to discredit them that wouldn’t be true of any other form of social organization, from governments to corporations. There’s more history of unions winning protections, better wages, and improved quality of life for workers across the world than there are evidence of their corruption. It’s why millions upon millions of workers, have created, joined, and maintained them throughout the history of Capitalism. But feel free to try and convince everyone why, for example, the vast majority of trade and industrial workers in developed countries or everyone in the NBA are all just wrong and confused.
- friendlybus 7y ago
  I don't mind unionizing factory work on institutionalized sports, even though that can go poorly in some cases. There are some industries that have finite requirements and no amount of union bending can change the nature of the industry. There's only a few games that employ enough people to become an institution that requires worker protection. Star Citizen, Blizzard, Riot Games are institutions in their own right. Thousands of indie games are not and can make good wages or average wages by working solo or in small teams. Forcing these people to work to union rules (which will happen with union capture) breaks the model of independence for the sake of salaried employees. The large companies will merge and the industry will die. I can't agree with that.
  - Frondo 7y ago
    The game industry will do just fine with a union presence. It won't die. Solo game developers will feel no union pressure, nor will small teams. If there are triple-A studios that are so fragile that they'll go under with their employees getting better working conditions, I will shed no tear for those. I will shed no tear for any employer whose continued business success depends on working staff 80, 120 hours a week, in the game industry or any other.
    - friendlybus 7y ago
      That is the dream that we can unionize without it becoming an all-encompassing force. Hollywood has not experienced that.
      - claudeganon 7y ago
        Indie films still get made, big actors work at scale, or certain content shifts to new platforms (e.g. streaming). The decline of independence in Hollywood has little to do with unions and more to do with unregulated, entertainment industry monopolies.
        friendlybus 7y ago

Apocryphon 7y ago

And there are endless instances of bad corporate behavior. So we are at an impasse.

hinkley 7y ago
Not when the orders of magnitude are different.
- Apocryphon 7y ago
  Is there a study comparing corruption rates?

claudeganon 7y ago

This is just a logic error masquerading as an argument. Discrediting single instances of x’s behavior is an endless game, therefore all instances of x are bad. You haven’t provided anything inherent to unions to discredit them that wouldn’t be true of any other form of social organization, from governments to corporations. There’s more history of unions winning protections, better wages, and improved quality of life for workers across the world than there are evidence of their corruption. It’s why millions upon millions of workers, have created, joined, and maintained them throughout the history of Capitalism. But feel free to try and convince everyone why, for example, the vast majority of trade and industrial workers in developed countries or everyone in the NBA are all just wrong and confused.

friendlybus 7y ago
I don't mind unionizing factory work on institutionalized sports, even though that can go poorly in some cases. There are some industries that have finite requirements and no amount of union bending can change the nature of the industry. There's only a few games that employ enough people to become an institution that requires worker protection. Star Citizen, Blizzard, Riot Games are institutions in their own right. Thousands of indie games are not and can make good wages or average wages by working solo or in small teams. Forcing these people to work to union rules (which will happen with union capture) breaks the model of independence for the sake of salaried employees. The large companies will merge and the industry will die. I can't agree with that.
- Frondo 7y ago
  The game industry will do just fine with a union presence. It won't die. Solo game developers will feel no union pressure, nor will small teams. If there are triple-A studios that are so fragile that they'll go under with their employees getting better working conditions, I will shed no tear for those. I will shed no tear for any employer whose continued business success depends on working staff 80, 120 hours a week, in the game industry or any other.
  - friendlybus 7y ago
    That is the dream that we can unionize without it becoming an all-encompassing force. Hollywood has not experienced that.
    - claudeganon 7y ago
      Indie films still get made, big actors work at scale, or certain content shifts to new platforms (e.g. streaming). The decline of independence in Hollywood has little to do with unions and more to do with unregulated, entertainment industry monopolies.
      - friendlybus 7y ago