6 ms·

Well, it does seem to be semi factual, 183 people had been arrested, "only 24 of them for arson: 24 people have been charged over alleged deliberately-lit

by vondur 7y ago

Well, it does seem to be semi factual, 183 people had been arrested, "only 24 of them for arson: 24 people have been charged over alleged deliberately-lit bushfires 53 people have had legal actions for allegedly failing to comply with a total fire ban, and 47 people have had legal actions for allegedly discarding a lighted cigarette or match on land. Source: https://www.police.nsw.gov.au/news/news_article?sq_content_src=%2BdXJsPWh0dHBzJTNBJTJGJTJGZWJpenByZC5wb2xpY2UubnN3Lmdvdi5hdSUyRm1lZGlhJTJGODIyNjQuaHRtbCZhbGw9MQ%3D%3D https://www.police.nsw.gov.au/news/news_article?sq_content_s...

johnbrodie 7y ago
No one issuing these clarifications seems to also impart that those are only NSW numbers. Do we know what the totals are across the entire country?
- lazyasciiart 7y ago
  They should also be including previous years data - I’ve seen a lot of people who appear to think arson was invented this summer. And a mind blowing few who think it was invented by people desperate to keep the climate change hoax going :/
  - mcantelon 7y ago
    24 people being charged with arson, deliberately setting forest fires, during this season seems like a lot.
    - lazyasciiart 7y ago
      I'm sure it does, to people who don't realize what the usual numbers are. That's why it should only be presented with the context of data from previous years. And that data says >The Australian Productivity Commission has calculated that between 2001–02 and 2006–07, [there was] an average of nearly 54,000 fires per year (SGRSP 2008). ... It is estimated that 50 percent of fires are either deliberately lit or suspicious in origin as shown in Figure 1. https://aic.gov.au/publications/bfab/bfab059 https://aic.gov.au/publications/bfab/bfab059 edit: and to compare arson charges specifically, the same article says that between 2001 and 2006 there were 133 convicted bushfire arsonists in New South Wales - or about 20 per year convicted in a single state. Since there probably isn't a 100% conviction rate, I'd expect the total number charged each year for the whole country is along the order of 50 people.
      - mcantelon 7y ago
        That's pretty crazy... if there's 133 convicted in that time span then the actual number of folks doing this might be considerably larger. This seems like a subject worth someone doing a documentary about given this is likely, if it's happening in Australia, happening in many other places.
        lazyasciiart 7y ago
        Of course it's larger, its tens of thousands of fires deliberately lit each year. There are books, I wouldn't be surprised if there's a documentary somewhere.
  - rrrhys 7y ago
    It's just a deflection point from certain media. Commented elsewhere: Arson has been stable for 24 months to September 2019, it's a shame the data capture stops there. It's made up to deflect. https://www.bocsar.nsw.gov.au/Documents/RCS-Quarterly/NSW_Recorded_Crime_Sept_2019.pdf https://www.bocsar.nsw.gov.au/Documents/RCS-Quarterly/NSW_Re... crime / 2018 / 2019 / Trend Arson / 5,692 / 4,934 / Stable
WilTimSon 7y ago
I think their complaint isn't about the story not being factual but about the fact that Alex Jones is an insane person/outrage feeder who shouldn't be quoted as a source. Instead, they could have quoted, well, the source you give. It's much more credible, after all.
- reaperducer 7y ago
  The problem is that even a broken clock is correct twice a day. And for the sort of people who follow conspiracy theory whackjobs, that's all they need.
  - manicdee 7y ago
    A STOPPED clock is correct twice a day, as long as you already know what the time is you can tell that the clock is right at this time. A broken clock will always be wrong. Even if you already know what the time it, the fact that the broken clock looks like it is working will lead you to wanting to believe that it might be right just this once.
    - HeWhoLurksLate 7y ago
      Stopped clocks are generally considered to be a subset of broken clocks.
      - manicdee 7y ago
        My apologies for not being extremely pedantic about my definitions in an allegory.
- mcantelon 7y ago
  Insane people/outrage feeders will only be tolerated if they serve an establishment agenda.
  - __jal 7y ago
    No, but even if the crazy person is correct in this instance, I'm still not relying on them for political/personal safety/vitamin/any other information of any consequence.
madeofpalk 7y ago
Also, IIRC the number refers to people who were arrested as late as three months before the current fires.
- SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
  That’s 24 caught. How many were not caught? https://m.dw.com/en/australia-police-arrest-man-accused-of-starting-bushfires/a-51234527 https://m.dw.com/en/australia-police-arrest-man-accused-of-s... I’m not sure what would possess someone to do this. As if the earth needs any more “help” from idiots, right!?
cmroanirgo 7y ago
As an aside, I didn't realise we had explicit laws for smoking: > Light or use a tobacco product within 15metres of any stack of grain, hay corn, straw or any standing crop, dry grass or stubble field – up to a $5500 fine. Mum grew up on a wheat station (meaning: huge farm/ranch) and always said that the wheat fires moved pretty quickly, so I suppose that's where this law comes from.
e40 7y ago
The item I put in quotes is very specific and not at all like what you quoted.

by vondur 7y ago

johnbrodie 7y ago

No one issuing these clarifications seems to also impart that those are only NSW numbers. Do we know what the totals are across the entire country?

lazyasciiart 7y ago
They should also be including previous years data - I’ve seen a lot of people who appear to think arson was invented this summer. And a mind blowing few who think it was invented by people desperate to keep the climate change hoax going :/
- mcantelon 7y ago
  24 people being charged with arson, deliberately setting forest fires, during this season seems like a lot.
  - lazyasciiart 7y ago
    I'm sure it does, to people who don't realize what the usual numbers are. That's why it should only be presented with the context of data from previous years. And that data says >The Australian Productivity Commission has calculated that between 2001–02 and 2006–07, [there was] an average of nearly 54,000 fires per year (SGRSP 2008). ... It is estimated that 50 percent of fires are either deliberately lit or suspicious in origin as shown in Figure 1. https://aic.gov.au/publications/bfab/bfab059 https://aic.gov.au/publications/bfab/bfab059 edit: and to compare arson charges specifically, the same article says that between 2001 and 2006 there were 133 convicted bushfire arsonists in New South Wales - or about 20 per year convicted in a single state. Since there probably isn't a 100% conviction rate, I'd expect the total number charged each year for the whole country is along the order of 50 people.
    - mcantelon 7y ago
      That's pretty crazy... if there's 133 convicted in that time span then the actual number of folks doing this might be considerably larger. This seems like a subject worth someone doing a documentary about given this is likely, if it's happening in Australia, happening in many other places.
      - lazyasciiart 7y ago
        Of course it's larger, its tens of thousands of fires deliberately lit each year. There are books, I wouldn't be surprised if there's a documentary somewhere.
- rrrhys 7y ago
  It's just a deflection point from certain media. Commented elsewhere: Arson has been stable for 24 months to September 2019, it's a shame the data capture stops there. It's made up to deflect. https://www.bocsar.nsw.gov.au/Documents/RCS-Quarterly/NSW_Recorded_Crime_Sept_2019.pdf https://www.bocsar.nsw.gov.au/Documents/RCS-Quarterly/NSW_Re... crime / 2018 / 2019 / Trend Arson / 5,692 / 4,934 / Stable

WilTimSon 7y ago

I think their complaint isn't about the story not being factual but about the fact that Alex Jones is an insane person/outrage feeder who shouldn't be quoted as a source. Instead, they could have quoted, well, the source you give. It's much more credible, after all.

reaperducer 7y ago
The problem is that even a broken clock is correct twice a day. And for the sort of people who follow conspiracy theory whackjobs, that's all they need.
- manicdee 7y ago
  A STOPPED clock is correct twice a day, as long as you already know what the time is you can tell that the clock is right at this time. A broken clock will always be wrong. Even if you already know what the time it, the fact that the broken clock looks like it is working will lead you to wanting to believe that it might be right just this once.
  - HeWhoLurksLate 7y ago
    Stopped clocks are generally considered to be a subset of broken clocks.
    - manicdee 7y ago
      My apologies for not being extremely pedantic about my definitions in an allegory.
mcantelon 7y ago
Insane people/outrage feeders will only be tolerated if they serve an establishment agenda.
- __jal 7y ago
  No, but even if the crazy person is correct in this instance, I'm still not relying on them for political/personal safety/vitamin/any other information of any consequence.

madeofpalk 7y ago

Also, IIRC the number refers to people who were arrested as late as three months before the current fires.

SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
That’s 24 caught. How many were not caught? https://m.dw.com/en/australia-police-arrest-man-accused-of-starting-bushfires/a-51234527 https://m.dw.com/en/australia-police-arrest-man-accused-of-s... I’m not sure what would possess someone to do this. As if the earth needs any more “help” from idiots, right!?

cmroanirgo 7y ago

As an aside, I didn't realise we had explicit laws for smoking: > Light or use a tobacco product within 15metres of any stack of grain, hay corn, straw or any standing crop, dry grass or stubble field – up to a $5500 fine. Mum grew up on a wheat station (meaning: huge farm/ranch) and always said that the wheat fires moved pretty quickly, so I suppose that's where this law comes from.

e40 7y ago

The item I put in quotes is very specific and not at all like what you quoted.