6 ms·

Why are there people measuring ground current? Even though random scientific interest is enough reason, I suppose it's more than that.

by gpvos 7y ago

GhettoMaestro 7y ago
Their website appears to be focused on studying space weather. Electrical ground currents are influenced by space (interactions).
dest 7y ago
It may break our electrical grid maybe
- elfexec 7y ago
  Considering that the ground is "ground", I highly doubt that. The article states that "While currents flowed through the ground, auroras filled the sky.". There may be a correlation between the currents and weather/natural events.
  - hwillis 7y ago
    The electrical grid is literally connected to ground at points that can be separated by hundreds of miles. Ground currents cause those points to be at different voltages. Since the wire is very low resistance, this can cause very bad damage if the protection fails. > There may be a correlation between the currents and weather/natural events. Ground currents are caused by the same thing as Auroras, in addition to normal weather. They occur constantly to a small degree. They are a problem everywhere in the world; if you lay out a 100 mile metal wire without taking proper precautions to make it safe electrically it will quickly start creating very dangerous discharges. Think about it this way. It's very dangerous to fly a kite in a thunderstorm; the line will conduct electricity and makes it much more likely that the massive difference in charge between the air and ground will pick you to flow through. Ground currents are the same situation, except between two bits of ground. Civilized areas of the planet are totally cobwebbed by kite lines connecting these areas. It would be bad. > The James Bay network went offline in less than 90 seconds, giving Quebec its second massive power outage in 11 months.[10] The power failure lasted nine hours and forced the company to implement various mitigation strategies, including raising the trip level, installing series compensation on ultra high voltage lines and upgrading various monitoring and operational procedures. Other utilities in North America and Northern Europe and elsewhere implemented programs to reduce the risks associated with geomagnetically induced currents (GICs).[9] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_1989_geomagnetic_storm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_1989_geomagnetic_storm
  - m4rtink 7y ago
    Well, a lot of sruff is grounded. Now when yoi have current running in the ground, that can cause all manners of havoc.
  - mike_d 7y ago
    It can absolutely break the grid. Soil has a specific impedance and large influxes of energy can overwhelm it. Power grids closely monitor the EPR around every substation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_potential_rise https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_potential_rise
stefanpie 7y ago
Look like the data comes from a NASA satalite that tracks measurements for space weather and related scientific missions. Monitoring/forecasting space weather, especially solar effects and impacts, is important for detecting solar flares and ejections that can disrupt electronics in space and on the ground.
crtlaltdel 7y ago
ground current behaviors are important to study and understand! there can be practical impacts on systems and safety.
- labster 7y ago
  For example... ? I’m totally okay with pure science for science’s sake, but you left me hanging.
  - hwillis 7y ago
    For example everything breaking and electrical arcs from outlets. In the early days of the telegraph we did not understand ground currents or the difference in ground potential over geographic distances, and it would occasionally cause large, lethal discharges from the wires. This would occur with zero warning. Ground current means that there is a potential difference between two points. Over large distances a small current will lead to extremely large voltage differences. Wires over the same distance will have very low voltage differences (since they are low resistance), so the wire will be the same voltage as the place it was last referenced to ground. That may be very different from the ground or people at a different location. This can be particularly important in improperly wired homes, which can have small voltages on a floating ground. Ground currents will cause that voltage to become much larger. > The James Bay network went offline in less than 90 seconds, giving Quebec its second massive power outage in 11 months.[10] The power failure lasted nine hours and forced the company to implement various mitigation strategies, including raising the trip level, installing series compensation on ultra high voltage lines and upgrading various monitoring and operational procedures. Other utilities in North America and Northern Europe and elsewhere implemented programs to reduce the risks associated with geomagnetically induced currents (GICs).[9] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_1989_geomagnetic_storm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_1989_geomagnetic_storm
Rebelgecko 7y ago
Space weather events can have measurable effects on electrical things that are supposedly grounded. The 1989 coronal mass ejection caused lots of problems with radios, which is probably one of the better known side effects of a solar storm. But it also took out power grids because utilities got a phantom current that just showed up out of nowhere on their long cables. This current can also cause problems for other long metal things buried in the ground like oil pipelines. IIRC a similar event in the 19th century electrocuted a bunch of telegraph operators. They unplugged the power as a safety measure, but the Earth's magnetic field generated so much current in the telegraph cables that they still worked.
- thinkcontext 7y ago
  > event in the 19th century electrocuted a bunch of telegraph operators. True but you are underselling it a bit. Aurora was seen as far south as Colombia and in Colorado it reportedly was bright enough to wake people up because they thought it was day. It is assumed that had that occurred today it would have fried the power grid on at least a continental scale. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_storm_of_1859 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_storm_of_1859
  - riversflow 7y ago
    I honestly think it’s crazy that we don’t give this more attention as a society. Like, there is serious talk that we need to look out for Asteroids. But nothing about hardening ourselves against the next high output solar event, which seems more likely to be a problem.
    - eli 7y ago
      My understanding is that the only early warning system we have relies on old and failing satellites and provides only minutes of warning.
      - chrisco255 7y ago
        "In August 2018, NASA's Parker Solar Probe launched to space, soon becoming the closest-ever spacecraft to the Sun. With cutting-edge scientific instruments to measure the environment around the spacecraft, Parker Solar Probe has completed three of 24 planned passes through never-before-explored parts of the Sun's atmosphere, the corona." https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2019/nasas-parker-solar-probe-sheds-new-light-on-the-sun/ https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2019/nasas-parker-solar...

Why are there people measuring ground current? Even though random scientific interest is enough reason, I suppose it's more than that.

by gpvos 7y ago

Why are there people measuring ground current? Even though random scientific interest is enough reason, I suppose it's more than that.

GhettoMaestro 7y ago

Their website appears to be focused on studying space weather. Electrical ground currents are influenced by space (interactions).

dest 7y ago

It may break our electrical grid maybe

elfexec 7y ago
Considering that the ground is "ground", I highly doubt that. The article states that "While currents flowed through the ground, auroras filled the sky.". There may be a correlation between the currents and weather/natural events.
- hwillis 7y ago
  The electrical grid is literally connected to ground at points that can be separated by hundreds of miles. Ground currents cause those points to be at different voltages. Since the wire is very low resistance, this can cause very bad damage if the protection fails. > There may be a correlation between the currents and weather/natural events. Ground currents are caused by the same thing as Auroras, in addition to normal weather. They occur constantly to a small degree. They are a problem everywhere in the world; if you lay out a 100 mile metal wire without taking proper precautions to make it safe electrically it will quickly start creating very dangerous discharges. Think about it this way. It's very dangerous to fly a kite in a thunderstorm; the line will conduct electricity and makes it much more likely that the massive difference in charge between the air and ground will pick you to flow through. Ground currents are the same situation, except between two bits of ground. Civilized areas of the planet are totally cobwebbed by kite lines connecting these areas. It would be bad. > The James Bay network went offline in less than 90 seconds, giving Quebec its second massive power outage in 11 months.[10] The power failure lasted nine hours and forced the company to implement various mitigation strategies, including raising the trip level, installing series compensation on ultra high voltage lines and upgrading various monitoring and operational procedures. Other utilities in North America and Northern Europe and elsewhere implemented programs to reduce the risks associated with geomagnetically induced currents (GICs).[9] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_1989_geomagnetic_storm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_1989_geomagnetic_storm
- m4rtink 7y ago
  Well, a lot of sruff is grounded. Now when yoi have current running in the ground, that can cause all manners of havoc.
- mike_d 7y ago
  It can absolutely break the grid. Soil has a specific impedance and large influxes of energy can overwhelm it. Power grids closely monitor the EPR around every substation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_potential_rise https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_potential_rise

stefanpie 7y ago

Look like the data comes from a NASA satalite that tracks measurements for space weather and related scientific missions. Monitoring/forecasting space weather, especially solar effects and impacts, is important for detecting solar flares and ejections that can disrupt electronics in space and on the ground.

crtlaltdel 7y ago

ground current behaviors are important to study and understand! there can be practical impacts on systems and safety.

labster 7y ago
For example... ? I’m totally okay with pure science for science’s sake, but you left me hanging.
- hwillis 7y ago
  For example everything breaking and electrical arcs from outlets. In the early days of the telegraph we did not understand ground currents or the difference in ground potential over geographic distances, and it would occasionally cause large, lethal discharges from the wires. This would occur with zero warning. Ground current means that there is a potential difference between two points. Over large distances a small current will lead to extremely large voltage differences. Wires over the same distance will have very low voltage differences (since they are low resistance), so the wire will be the same voltage as the place it was last referenced to ground. That may be very different from the ground or people at a different location. This can be particularly important in improperly wired homes, which can have small voltages on a floating ground. Ground currents will cause that voltage to become much larger. > The James Bay network went offline in less than 90 seconds, giving Quebec its second massive power outage in 11 months.[10] The power failure lasted nine hours and forced the company to implement various mitigation strategies, including raising the trip level, installing series compensation on ultra high voltage lines and upgrading various monitoring and operational procedures. Other utilities in North America and Northern Europe and elsewhere implemented programs to reduce the risks associated with geomagnetically induced currents (GICs).[9] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_1989_geomagnetic_storm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_1989_geomagnetic_storm

Rebelgecko 7y ago

Space weather events can have measurable effects on electrical things that are supposedly grounded. The 1989 coronal mass ejection caused lots of problems with radios, which is probably one of the better known side effects of a solar storm. But it also took out power grids because utilities got a phantom current that just showed up out of nowhere on their long cables. This current can also cause problems for other long metal things buried in the ground like oil pipelines. IIRC a similar event in the 19th century electrocuted a bunch of telegraph operators. They unplugged the power as a safety measure, but the Earth's magnetic field generated so much current in the telegraph cables that they still worked.

thinkcontext 7y ago
> event in the 19th century electrocuted a bunch of telegraph operators. True but you are underselling it a bit. Aurora was seen as far south as Colombia and in Colorado it reportedly was bright enough to wake people up because they thought it was day. It is assumed that had that occurred today it would have fried the power grid on at least a continental scale. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_storm_of_1859 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_storm_of_1859
- riversflow 7y ago
  I honestly think it’s crazy that we don’t give this more attention as a society. Like, there is serious talk that we need to look out for Asteroids. But nothing about hardening ourselves against the next high output solar event, which seems more likely to be a problem.
  - eli 7y ago
    My understanding is that the only early warning system we have relies on old and failing satellites and provides only minutes of warning.
    - chrisco255 7y ago
      "In August 2018, NASA's Parker Solar Probe launched to space, soon becoming the closest-ever spacecraft to the Sun. With cutting-edge scientific instruments to measure the environment around the spacecraft, Parker Solar Probe has completed three of 24 planned passes through never-before-explored parts of the Sun's atmosphere, the corona." https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2019/nasas-parker-solar-probe-sheds-new-light-on-the-sun/ https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2019/nasas-parker-solar...