4 ms·

The union bosses do it to themselves: Misuse of union funds and a union boss passing over union workers for private workers because they cost less for the job.

The union bosses do it to themselves: Misuse of union funds and a union boss passing over union workers for private workers because they cost less for the job. Utopian unions don't happen. https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/detroit-city/2018/11/01/uaw-uses-non-union-labor-construction-home-resort-spot/1811055002/ https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/detroit-city/20...

Frondo 7y ago
There are corrupt unions everywhere, but the only thing more corrupt than unions is management.
claudeganon 7y ago
Yup, and every person on welfare eats caviar and drives a Cadillac. The fact that this is your go to story on unions vs. the millions of well-protected and empowered workers across the world is just more evidence of how internalized this propaganda is in the US.
- friendlybus 7y ago
  I googled it in 30 seconds. There are more too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Commission_into_Trade_Union_Governance_and_Corruption https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Commission_into_Trade_Un... https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/2tsg3e/eli5_prounion_vs_antiunion_arguments/ https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/2tsg3e/e... Discrediting single instances of bad union behaviour is an endless game, there's a lot of history to draw from.
  - Apocryphon 7y ago
    And there are endless instances of bad corporate behavior. So we are at an impasse.
    - hinkley 7y ago
      Not when the orders of magnitude are different.
      - Apocryphon 7y ago
        Is there a study comparing corruption rates?
  - claudeganon 7y ago
    This is just a logic error masquerading as an argument. Discrediting single instances of x’s behavior is an endless game, therefore all instances of x are bad. You haven’t provided anything inherent to unions to discredit them that wouldn’t be true of any other form of social organization, from governments to corporations. There’s more history of unions winning protections, better wages, and improved quality of life for workers across the world than there are evidence of their corruption. It’s why millions upon millions of workers, have created, joined, and maintained them throughout the history of Capitalism. But feel free to try and convince everyone why, for example, the vast majority of trade and industrial workers in developed countries or everyone in the NBA are all just wrong and confused.
    - friendlybus 7y ago
      I don't mind unionizing factory work on institutionalized sports, even though that can go poorly in some cases. There are some industries that have finite requirements and no amount of union bending can change the nature of the industry. There's only a few games that employ enough people to become an institution that requires worker protection. Star Citizen, Blizzard, Riot Games are institutions in their own right. Thousands of indie games are not and can make good wages or average wages by working solo or in small teams. Forcing these people to work to union rules (which will happen with union capture) breaks the model of independence for the sake of salaried employees. The large companies will merge and the industry will die. I can't agree with that.
      - Frondo 7y ago
        The game industry will do just fine with a union presence. It won't die. Solo game developers will feel no union pressure, nor will small teams. If there are triple-A studios that are so fragile that they'll go under with their employees getting better working conditions, I will shed no tear for those. I will shed no tear for any employer whose continued business success depends on working staff 80, 120 hours a week, in the game industry or any other.
        friendlybus 7y ago

Frondo 7y ago

There are corrupt unions everywhere, but the only thing more corrupt than unions is management.

claudeganon 7y ago

Yup, and every person on welfare eats caviar and drives a Cadillac. The fact that this is your go to story on unions vs. the millions of well-protected and empowered workers across the world is just more evidence of how internalized this propaganda is in the US.

friendlybus 7y ago
I googled it in 30 seconds. There are more too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Commission_into_Trade_Union_Governance_and_Corruption https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Commission_into_Trade_Un... https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/2tsg3e/eli5_prounion_vs_antiunion_arguments/ https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/2tsg3e/e... Discrediting single instances of bad union behaviour is an endless game, there's a lot of history to draw from.
- Apocryphon 7y ago
  And there are endless instances of bad corporate behavior. So we are at an impasse.
  - hinkley 7y ago
    Not when the orders of magnitude are different.
    - Apocryphon 7y ago
      Is there a study comparing corruption rates?
- claudeganon 7y ago
  This is just a logic error masquerading as an argument. Discrediting single instances of x’s behavior is an endless game, therefore all instances of x are bad. You haven’t provided anything inherent to unions to discredit them that wouldn’t be true of any other form of social organization, from governments to corporations. There’s more history of unions winning protections, better wages, and improved quality of life for workers across the world than there are evidence of their corruption. It’s why millions upon millions of workers, have created, joined, and maintained them throughout the history of Capitalism. But feel free to try and convince everyone why, for example, the vast majority of trade and industrial workers in developed countries or everyone in the NBA are all just wrong and confused.
  - friendlybus 7y ago
    I don't mind unionizing factory work on institutionalized sports, even though that can go poorly in some cases. There are some industries that have finite requirements and no amount of union bending can change the nature of the industry. There's only a few games that employ enough people to become an institution that requires worker protection. Star Citizen, Blizzard, Riot Games are institutions in their own right. Thousands of indie games are not and can make good wages or average wages by working solo or in small teams. Forcing these people to work to union rules (which will happen with union capture) breaks the model of independence for the sake of salaried employees. The large companies will merge and the industry will die. I can't agree with that.
    - Frondo 7y ago
      The game industry will do just fine with a union presence. It won't die. Solo game developers will feel no union pressure, nor will small teams. If there are triple-A studios that are so fragile that they'll go under with their employees getting better working conditions, I will shed no tear for those. I will shed no tear for any employer whose continued business success depends on working staff 80, 120 hours a week, in the game industry or any other.
      - friendlybus 7y ago