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> I am saying that running your own show or a show with other people If you're running your own thing then you aren't a worker. You aren't part of the union. Y

> I am saying that running your own show or a show with other people If you're running your own thing then you aren't a worker. You aren't part of the union. Your input on union activities is not valuable, because you are the opposition. Sorry to be harsh, but that's the truth.

friendlybus 7y ago
What argument do you have? I feel free to identify with and as a worker.
- unapologetic 7y ago
  That's fine, but you're still a boss and your opinions on unions should be treated as those of a potentially bad actor. That's just the way it works. I can't trust you to tell me a union is a bad idea. You have too much to gain by saying no.
  - friendlybus 7y ago
    The world is a good place with good people in it. The perception of bad actors and bad intent is your worldview, not mine. You have too much to gain from painting the world as a bad place, it's not trustworthy. The innocent everyday man aiming to be king of the union has all the personal motive in the world to manufacture a utopian vision of worker's rights. The real world has good people bearing a cross of suffering to generate something of meaningful value in this world.
    - unapologetic 7y ago
      They also have the incentive make those things happen. The boss doesn't. The boss has incentive cut costs and increase profits. Even if the current boss is good person, the next one might not be. Situation might change the boss might go after workers to save profits. We aren't on the same side of the table. Look at Google. Good job, stable, good pay, solid benefits. Sounds great. They were also engaged in massive wage fixing and are now firing union activists.
      - friendlybus 7y ago
        Some of the biggest companies in the American tech space value things other than money as the highest priority. Steve Jobs famously was product focused and warned against excessive greed. https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/664366-if-you-keep-your-eye-on-the-profit-you-re-going https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/664366-if-you-keep-your-eye... Elon Musk poured his own money into his projects to the point of becoming bankrupt and was helped out by others who believed in the product. Cutting costs is the antithesis of what these guys are doing, making outrageous profit is the marketeers and advertisers that came to slash and burn Apple. These guys making reasonable profits and achieving good things are doing so at the expense of greed. The world is a good place. Google's "don't be evil" has left me uncomfortable when combined their actions. Cadbury pushed a whole bunch of innovative workplace conditions and purchased a collection of houses to supply the workforce, without the pressure or installation of unions. https://www.cadbury.com.au/About-Cadbury/The-Story-of-Cadbury/The-Story-of-Cadbury---Continued.aspx https://www.cadbury.com.au/About-Cadbury/The-Story-of-Cadbur... There will always be a fundamental conflict between what the worker can get from a company and what the company can get for it's goals. Unions can't change that and nor can bosses. We can see the good in the world for what it is.
        unapologetic 7y ago
        Steve Jobs died an obscenely wealthy man. Elon Musk will probably die an obscenely wealthy man. Every billionaire has a plan to save the world. None of them involve paying taxes.
        friendlybus 7y ago
        Remarkably ignorant. Mining billionaires have said they could pay more tax. Bill gates is one of the biggest proponents of a robot tax and patent reform. Elon is a billionaire in Tesla stocks, not liquid cash. Tesla pays payroll tax and a bunch of other taxes. What would you do with more taxes to save the world?
        Apocryphon 7y ago

friendlybus 7y ago

What argument do you have? I feel free to identify with and as a worker.

unapologetic 7y ago
That's fine, but you're still a boss and your opinions on unions should be treated as those of a potentially bad actor. That's just the way it works. I can't trust you to tell me a union is a bad idea. You have too much to gain by saying no.
- friendlybus 7y ago
  The world is a good place with good people in it. The perception of bad actors and bad intent is your worldview, not mine. You have too much to gain from painting the world as a bad place, it's not trustworthy. The innocent everyday man aiming to be king of the union has all the personal motive in the world to manufacture a utopian vision of worker's rights. The real world has good people bearing a cross of suffering to generate something of meaningful value in this world.
  - unapologetic 7y ago
    They also have the incentive make those things happen. The boss doesn't. The boss has incentive cut costs and increase profits. Even if the current boss is good person, the next one might not be. Situation might change the boss might go after workers to save profits. We aren't on the same side of the table. Look at Google. Good job, stable, good pay, solid benefits. Sounds great. They were also engaged in massive wage fixing and are now firing union activists.
    - friendlybus 7y ago
      Some of the biggest companies in the American tech space value things other than money as the highest priority. Steve Jobs famously was product focused and warned against excessive greed. https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/664366-if-you-keep-your-eye-on-the-profit-you-re-going https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/664366-if-you-keep-your-eye... Elon Musk poured his own money into his projects to the point of becoming bankrupt and was helped out by others who believed in the product. Cutting costs is the antithesis of what these guys are doing, making outrageous profit is the marketeers and advertisers that came to slash and burn Apple. These guys making reasonable profits and achieving good things are doing so at the expense of greed. The world is a good place. Google's "don't be evil" has left me uncomfortable when combined their actions. Cadbury pushed a whole bunch of innovative workplace conditions and purchased a collection of houses to supply the workforce, without the pressure or installation of unions. https://www.cadbury.com.au/About-Cadbury/The-Story-of-Cadbury/The-Story-of-Cadbury---Continued.aspx https://www.cadbury.com.au/About-Cadbury/The-Story-of-Cadbur... There will always be a fundamental conflict between what the worker can get from a company and what the company can get for it's goals. Unions can't change that and nor can bosses. We can see the good in the world for what it is.
      - unapologetic 7y ago
        Steve Jobs died an obscenely wealthy man. Elon Musk will probably die an obscenely wealthy man. Every billionaire has a plan to save the world. None of them involve paying taxes.
        friendlybus 7y ago
        Remarkably ignorant. Mining billionaires have said they could pay more tax. Bill gates is one of the biggest proponents of a robot tax and patent reform. Elon is a billionaire in Tesla stocks, not liquid cash. Tesla pays payroll tax and a bunch of other taxes. What would you do with more taxes to save the world?
        Apocryphon 7y ago