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The Wall, a modular microLED display
- wwweston 7y agoI guess the Fahrenheit 451 references are inevitable, so why not embrace the naming? :b
- reificator 7y agoSamsung doesn't need any more references to fire in the public consciousness right now.
- cacois 7y agoAs soon as I saw it, I couldn't think of anything else...
- brb3 7y agoA marketing page at the number one spot on Hacker News, and only 35 minutes old. Hmm.
- danem 7y agoHow is this any different than what happens after every Apple product launch?
- tengbretson 7y agoWell for starters a lot of HN users actually use the products Apple launches.
- zitterbewegung 7y agoAnd a lot of those product launches have Samsung displays in them .
- ralusek 7y agoI'm on a Samsung device right now you dullard.
- wayneftw 7y agoEvery television in my house is a Samsung and all of my Android phones are too.
- tengbretson 7y agoI have no hesitation in saying that you will never own, nor be in the market for this product.
- wayneftw 7y agoEven in cases where that might be true - would you still allow me the enjoyment of reading about it? Gee golly, I mean I don't live anywhere near The Boring Company tunnel projects but I still like reading about those... What's your problem?
- Mikeb85 7y agoSamsung is one of the largest (the largest?) display manufacturers in the world that makes, among other things, displays for Apple.
- everdrive 7y agoTwo wrongs don't make a right.
- danem 7y agoWhat's "wrong" about this? No one has provided any evidence of manipulation other than speculation. Maybe people are interested in Samsung's display technology?
- brb3 7y agoI don't know how to provide evidence of manipulation as an outside observer. I was pointing out that it does seem strange. But maybe this is the course of HN nowadays.
- everdrive 7y agoAgreed, sorry -- I was commenting on the logic of the argument rather than the apparent facts of the situation.
- Willamin 7y agoIs the difference that Apple product launches are (not exclusively) intended for consumers whereas the Wall is aimed almost exclusively at large business's lobbies?
- fortran77 7y agoThe website shows two uses "for business" and "for luxury living". So it is intended for home!
- est31 7y ago... and for luxury living. Luxury car launches are covered on the hn frontpage as well, e.g. that weird car whose windows Elon broke... probably increasing its value in the process.
- est31 7y agoThis site has a bay area bias.
- dang 7y agoPlease don't break the site guidelines by insinuating astroturfing or shillage and whatnot. It's nearly always just imagination, and it poisons discussion here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=true&page=0&query=by:dang%20astroturf https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...
- Mikeb85 7y agoSo? It's a cool product, it's tech related and potentially useful to a decent amount of people.
- bostonvaulter2 7y agoWhy is this flagged? It seems like a very legitimate thought. And now this post is at #63 (on page 3).
- brb3 7y agoTurns out, you can't mention that things might be astroturfing on HN because that's against the rules. So _pointing out_ something fishy is against the rules here. That seems very strange to me.
- zamadatix 7y ago"In comments... Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email us and we'll look at the data. " It's not that you can't make a post discussing astroturfing on HN or that you can't point out astroturfing to someone that can actually do something about it it's that you aren't supposed to just respond to an article that you think it's astroturfing as that helps nobody even if it is or isn't actually astroturfing.
- volune 7y agoWe don't need no illumination.
- apollopower 7y agoWe don't need no remote control
- PedroBatista 7y agoWe don't need no bright control
- mc32 7y agoHow are you going to have your shows if we don’t eat your data!
- baybal2 7y agoI never though that Samsung will jump on microled bandwagon. Samsung for long been trying to make LEDs in-situ on backplane, and they had samples in labs at least 5 years ago.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- satya71 7y agoSomeone loves the word "Great" in their marketing department.
- capableweb 7y agoNo joke. Good example how to not write marketing copy for a landing page. This is from the linked page: - Behind the greatness of microLED display technology - View the greatness - Great black - Great color - Great refinement - Build the greatness - Great design - Great modularity - Great look - Handle the greatness - Great performance - ... see the greatness of microLED display technology up close Hint for people writing landing pages: try to not use the same word over and over again. Something like thesaurus.com can help you find alternatives, but make sure you understand the replacement word and that it sounds natural.
- numlock86 7y ago> Hint for people writing landing pages: [...] Something like thesaurus.com can help you find alternatives [...] Guess the next ad campaign will read like this: - Behind the prodigiousness of microLED display technology - View the amplitude - Stupendous black - Humongous color - Titanic refinement ... you get the point.
- reportgunner 7y agoYeah at least it's not the newest product we have ever built
- empath75 7y agoI think the comparison screenshots are hilariously dumb given that most people are going to be viewing them on a normal lcd screen. How did they magically make my screen display previously impossible colors!
- Andrew_nenakhov 7y agoIt's explained right there: "The Wall’s microLED technology possesses inherent color qualities with two times superior color purity ". 2x superior color purity is no mean feat. Such advanced technology can transcend beyond the boundaries set by your paltry screen.
- bhauer 7y agoThe splash of dust transitions used in the product video seem pathological to YouTube's MPEG compression. The compression renders the transitions a blurry mess—it's so messy as to be jarring. That's disappointing in a video that is attempting to sell the viewer on the clarity of a new display technology.
- hbosch 7y agoYeah, this is an inherent problem with marketing nice screens through bad screens.
- moufestaphio 7y agohaha yeah, I was thinking that on the slidable images of 'conventional led' vs 'the wall'. I'm on a conventional led, how can I actually see what the wall version is like?
- megous 7y agoMore like bad bitrate/codec.
- joshspankit 7y agoPoint being it would be better for them to go to Vimeo, or host high-bitrate copies themselves
- macinjosh 7y agoIn the next generation's version of "Woody Woodpecker" Coyote will use these instead of fake tunnels painted on the walls.
- blululu 7y agoThis is cool. Add it to the ever growing list of impractical and expensive things that I want to own in spite of it. Historically speaking this sort of reminds me of the wall of sound: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_of_Sound https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_of_Sound Totally different and way more put together but the scale evokes a similar sensation.
- rapnie 7y agoI really liked the individualism of the audio spotlight [0] but I have never seen one in use yet. [0] https://www.holosonics.com/ https://www.holosonics.com/
- mohaba 7y agoI have experienced it at several Best Buy stores in the video games section to advertise the various Call of Duty games over the past several years. You can only barely hear it unless you are standing directly in front of the panel.
- Androider 7y agoThe small visitor center at the Amazon Spheres in Seattle has a whole bunch of them.
- CaliforniaKarl 7y agoIf anyone is close enough to get to the Stanford Campus near the end of Spring quarter, I strongly going to CCRMA’s annual two-night concert series in the Bing Studio. They assemble their GRAIL around the audience, with members of CCRMA (and visitors) performing. https://ccrma.stanford.edu/home https://ccrma.stanford.edu/home https://lac.linuxaudio.org/2019/doc/lopez.pdf https://lac.linuxaudio.org/2019/doc/lopez.pdf
- mstade 7y agoI’d have hoped for HN there’d be an article focusing more on technology, and not just a marketing site. That said, does anyone know how this compares to LG’s OLED tech?
- wmf 7y agoLED walls aka jumbotrons have been around for years and it's not particularly clear what's new here other than the consumer branding. LED walls appear to be far more expensive than OLED but it's hard to compare given that there's no overlap in size.
- SmellyGeekBoy 7y ago> it's not particularly clear what's new here other than the consumer branding Pixel density
- nebulous1 7y agoThose side-by-side comparisons halfway down remind me of when you used to get ads demonstrating how much better DVDs were than VHS ... on the VHS tape you just rented.
- eterm 7y agoNot only that but I preferred the "LED" examples in most the pictures, the right hand side just looked oversaturated.
- morley 7y agoAnyone care to make an educated guess how much this thing costs? Is an 8'x10' display going to be six figures, or seven?
- dvirsky 7y agoI'm more interested in what it's going to cost in 5 years.
- keanzu 7y agoCurrently, Samsung is offering two models of The Wall, or rather the individual panels that make up The Wall, the IW008J and the IW008R. While Samsung doesn't list prices for these panels online, other resellers are listing the modules for $16 to $23 thousand dollars each. These individual modules measure 31.75 x 17.86 inches, but have an individual resolution of 960 x 540 pixels. In order to enjoy the same 3840 x 2160 resolution you'll get on a standard 4K TV, you'll need to buy 16 of these panels, to set up in a 4 x 4 configuration that measures 146 inches diagonally. https://www.tomsguide.com/us/samsung-the-wall-tv-release-date,news-27356.html https://www.tomsguide.com/us/samsung-the-wall-tv-release-dat...
- dsalzman 7y agoDirect link to PDF Spec https://image-us.samsung.com/SamsungUS/samsungbusiness/products/displays/direct-view-led/iw-series/pdf/DIGSIG-THEWALLPROFDSHT-APR19T_Final_4-17-19.pdf https://image-us.samsung.com/SamsungUS/samsungbusiness/produ...
- raggedy_andy 7y agoFor people like me who only open the comment section; "the wall" is a new display technology by Samsung that apparently allows you to easily tile them together
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- ortusdux 7y agoAny idea on the estimated price per panel?
- chadmaughan 7y agoOn SHI, it's listed at $16,779.00 (per unit?) https://www.shi.com/products/productdetail.aspx?SHISystemID=SHICommodity&ProductIdentity=35923808&EventID=d89f144e-56a0-42d5-9781-8bb9c9faed13 https://www.shi.com/products/productdetail.aspx?SHISystemID=...
- danvoell 7y agoAny guesses as to consumer pricing on this?
- jontro 7y agoA power draw of 130w per module(incl. cabinet) will give you a nice usage of 2kW in the standard configuration.
- kirubakaran 7y agoThey should just call it "Wall" /seanparker
- seanalltogether 7y agoAnyone with experience with these types of panels know whether the proposed seamless edges are actually possible? I'm a bit skeptical that manufacturing tolerances are tight enough to create a seamless edge from independent panels but I don't know enough to call bs.
- jontro 7y agoSony displayed something similar at CES a couple of years ago. Didn't notice it until I stood very close. https://pro.sony/en_MK/products/led-video-walls https://pro.sony/en_MK/products/led-video-walls
- modeless 7y agoIn LCD or OLED displays, most of the display area emits light. There are black lines between the pixels, but they are thin, so it's hard to hide a seam in one. In contrast, the micro LEDs on this display are very small relative to the distance between them, "micrometer scale" vs. almost a millimeter. Most of the display area is actually a blank black surface, where a seam can be hidden. Making smaller displays this way will be a challenge as the pixels will have to get closer together.
- spyder 7y agoHere is their demonstration with sliding panels together: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HVLgJFRwBA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HVLgJFRwBA You can see a little line on certain images (for example at 0:20) but maybe it's caused by the sliding mechanism, because there is no line on the left side assuming they are put together from two square panels same as the sliding one.
- SmellyGeekBoy 7y agoYes they are. I have worked with one of these and it looks incredible in person. The edges are seamless (but incredibly fragile).
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- htk 7y agoEnglish is not my first language but even I can spot some rough edges in the copy. Probably translated by a non-native, and they read like AliExpress’ product pages: trying to be inspiring but in reality just confusing.
- ProfessorLayton 7y agoI can't wait for micro LED displays to become mainstream. IMHO OLED displays are analogous to Plasma displays back in the day: A new tech that enabled many new form factors (Thinner TVs) but had many key drawbacks like power consumption and burn-in. The same is the case with OLED, which enables new form factors like foldable displays, but brings its own issues. I've been actively avoiding OLED displays for all my purchases due to its major current drawback: Burn-in. As beautiful as OLED displays may be with color and contrast, I have seen plenty of TV displays and phones with a permanently burned-in image of something that remained static for too long such as network logos, and status bars. My previous employer used beautiful 80" Samsung displays for their conference rooms, all of which were ruined in little over a year. This matters a lot to me because I use my TV for gaming, which involves static menus that will burn OLED displays if you're not careful. This is not something current LED displays are prone to, and I'm hoping micro LED displays work the same way.
- baybal2 7y ago> This is not something current LED displays are prone to, I will disappoint you. LED displays have burn ins too! And with pixel sizes approaching that of OLED, burn ins will start sooner, and be more visible. Samsung will not go for microled for consumer market until it gets "led on the backplane" going. That eliminates the transfer process, and most of cost associated with it. The unsolved issue is current transfer. If you grow LED in-situ, you have to somehow put power supply there too, and preferably do it in the same manufacturing process. If you have to transfer LEDs mechanically, it makes little cost difference to put LED driver ICs there mechanically too.
- ProfessorLayton 7y agoYou're right that LED isn't immune from burn-in, however, it is much more resistant to it, and isn't necessarily permanent either. Leaving an LED display off for a few days, often less, can be enough to bring it back to normal. Another artifact OLED displays have is their PenTile subpixel arrangement to compensate for the red, blue, and green organic compounds degrading at different rates. Hopefully micro LED brings us OLED quality with LCD reliability.
- PolCPP 7y agoSo what's new about this? It's been in the market for a while at around $20k per tile iirc. On the other side doesn't Sony, Barco, Christie and a few other signage companies have something similar to it?
- hinkley 7y agoBrand new TVs have a tiny bezel on three or sometimes four sides, but it's still a bezel. I dunno about Sony, but the Sharp and Philips models I could find had thin bezels too. When you tile displays, you have two bezels touching, so the black line is at least twice as wide. Zero bezel on 4 sides also seems to be noteworthy, because it removes some ways in which one could 'cheat'. For example the new iPhone. From what I understand the bezel on the sides and top could be zero instead of just really really narrow, but the bottom edge has the display electronics attached. To keep from having a big bezel at the bottom of the phone they folded the screen over, so the electronics sit behind the display instead of below. I'm not sure that allows true edge-to-edge display, so Samsung would have had to do some other trick instead of feeding signal in from the edges. A wall display that can be tiled on three edges still allows for quite a big bigger displays (especially in situations where long linear ones are good, like balconies or the barriers in MLS fields), but not quite like this one.
- PolCPP 7y agoBut the wall is not designed to be a TV but for digital signage. Even that page is inside their business side. I'm not sure while they keep trying to market to consumers. With those prices clearly it doesn't even make sense. IIRC Sony has Crystal led (which is just a brand for their micro led), and other companies have a sub 1mm pitch led walls which should be pretty similar. For a more "classical" solution there are LCD's with hairline bezels like Barco Unisee's, but again even those are far from consumer prices.
- SmellyGeekBoy 7y agoI know of a few people who have purchased "The Wall" for home installations. Never underestimate oil money.
- p1necone 7y agoAhh comparison pics of two different displays being shown on my display. My favorite kind of "wait, that makes no sense whatsoever" marketing. No matter what particular bit of new display tech they're advertising it's always the following too: Image with undersaturated colors | Image with oversaturated colors
- Mountain_Skies 7y agoThis was pointed out in an advertisement for a tv back in the 1980s. Think Harry Anderson was the pitchman for the ad. At the end he said "I'll show you this amazing new tv but remember, you're seeing it on your screen". Haven't seen any other video display ad since make that point. Edit: found the commercial (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PMG2lyGRcQ&feature=emb_title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PMG2lyGRcQ&feature=emb_titl...)
- wincy 7y agoSharp had ads for Quattron on their Aquos TVs that pointed out that you couldn’t see all the amazing colors. It had/has an extra yellow subpixel on the screen. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4DK1Yx4R6k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4DK1Yx4R6k
- joshspankit 7y agoOne of the reasons I hope they justify doctoring product shots (I mean really, the video includes a lot of pre-rendered models post-processed with heavily tweaked video)
- entangledqubit 7y agoWith pixels sized at about a millimeter, maybe it should be called a "milliLED" display.
- wmf 7y agoThe catch is that the pixel is mostly black and the LEDs take up a small fraction of it. One might say a microscopic fraction.
- macewindu 7y agoHow much power does this consume? Can it be battery powered? I wish there was a requirement for ads to list all the bill of materials they used and links to specifications.
- tjmc 7y ago190W/module max. 130W/module typical. Full specs are there. Click on "See all specifications" near the bottom just above the form.
- p1mrx 7y agoSo you can combine 4 modules to make a 72" 1080p display. Regardless of cost, this currently seems a bit impractical for home use.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- monocasa 7y agoI'm currently rocking a 125" screen with a 1080p projector. I'd love 1440p with super dark black.
- ChuckMcM 7y agoThis is one of those "oh my gosh" technologies that you put in the lobby of your venture capital firm or hedge fund to just calibrate the level of money the client should be expected to have/invest. That said, AFAICT microleds are the only technology that really lets you tile them. So you can build a 4K UHD display that is basically a bit smaller shorter than 8 feet (2.5 meters). But at 31 PPI it isn't great up up close. (not bad obviously but not stunning). Once it crosses 72 PPI that is when the world gets really interesting. For me.
- lioeters 7y agoInteresting numbers.. If I recall correctly, 72 PPI is the minimum recommended pixel density for digital prints, so the final result looks smooth and not "pixely". In the specs for The Wall microLED display, they mention a pixel pitch of 0.84mm. A quick conversion (1 inch = 25.4mm) tells me that's roughly 30 pixels per inch - oh, right, that's what you meant by 31 PPI, you already calculated it. :) Still, it's an attractive product, and I can imagine many use cases. Looks like the price range is $17~22K, for 9.6m x 5.4m dimension.
- mattlutze 7y agoTo extend the thought, 72 DPI has been the minimum recommended density for working at a desktop. For closer materials like magazines or photos, it was I think 300 DPI, since you might get closer. It's one of the reasons mobile screens got more dense, so that when you hold it 30 cm from your face things still look smooth. So... if your average viewer will be farther away from this wall than a desktop user, the DPI can go down and still be attractive. Edit: the not-science-backed chart here seems to track http://resources.printhandbook.com/pages/viewing-distance-dpi.php http://resources.printhandbook.com/pages/viewing-distance-dp...
- joshspankit 7y agoAt 300PPI, the cost of powering (electricity, CPU and GPU) a large feature wall might actually exceed the cost of the wall itself.
- ksec 7y agoWe already seen this in last year's CES 2018 [1]. So what exactly is new here? Were there any technical improvement? Or was it the same thing someone decide to post it? [1] https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/1/7/16861790/samsung-the-wall-microled-modular-tv-announced-ces-2018 https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/1/7/16861790/sa...
- SmellyGeekBoy 7y agoWithout giving away too many details, I worked on a project that involved the first installation of this in the UK last year. It's so good in person - you'd expect so for the price - but the early unit we worked with was incredibly unreliable. Hopefully they've managed to iron out the (apparently heat-related) issues by now.
- dkdbejwi383 7y agoI've seen this in person in London, and it's very warm. You can feel the heat coming off it from several metres away. Not sure if that is still causing problems or not.
- antfarm 7y agoParlor walls.