4 ms·

> All three of these are provided, I don't have a union. You said it right, they are provided. In Europe they are not provided: they are your right and it cann

> All three of these are provided, I don't have a union. You said it right, they are provided. In Europe they are not provided: they are your right and it cannot be taken away by your employer. Also an anecdote doesn't invalidate something that is true for a vast majority of the american workforce. But even if it was just a single person, it would still be a tragedy and a problem to solve.

ApolloFortyNine 7y ago
>Also an anecdote doesn't invalidate something that is true for a vast majority of the american workforce. You just love your wide sweeping claims don't you? No it is not true for the vast majority of the american workforce. >You said it right, they are provided. In Europe they are not provided: they are your right and it cannot be taken away by your employer. Can we please not move the goal posts, I thought this was a union discussion? If everyone in the U.S should have 4 weeks vacation, 4 months maternity leave, however much sick leave is deemed appropriate, that can be done at the legal level. You do not need unions to exist to do that!
- chobeat 7y ago
  Unions were always the way to gain those rights: weekends, 8hours a day, abolition of child labour, they were all fights won by unions. Now USA have weak business unions and no more rights are gained. Same is happening is happening in Europe where neoliberal governments are disgregating the rights won by unions in the last 2 centuries. It's not moving the goal post: unions are about improving the conditions for workers and when they are powerful enough, they can demand the State to crystallize their rights in law so that the battles don't have to be done over and over in each factory and office. That's the endgame, the rest is just preparatory.
  - unapologetic 7y ago
    More wrongthink. How unfortunate.
- unapologetic 7y ago
  > that can be done at the legal level. You do not need unions to exist to do that! Unions allow workers to wield political power collectively as well. Union endorsements are valuable, union money, union member donations. Instead of having billionaires like Bezos or the Koch brothers buying up media and giving millions to candidates to push their agenda, ordinary people can be heard. Why do you think so many old school union people were outright socialists?
  - grimjack00 7y ago
    > ordinary people can be heard You mean _unions_ can be heard; the ordinary people who make up the unions may not agree with the stance of the union.
  - uerobert 7y ago
    > Union endorsements are valuable, union money, union member donations. This is why a lot of people oppose unions. You could be contributing for causes you actively oppose, and on top of that against your will.

ApolloFortyNine 7y ago

>Also an anecdote doesn't invalidate something that is true for a vast majority of the american workforce. You just love your wide sweeping claims don't you? No it is not true for the vast majority of the american workforce. >You said it right, they are provided. In Europe they are not provided: they are your right and it cannot be taken away by your employer. Can we please not move the goal posts, I thought this was a union discussion? If everyone in the U.S should have 4 weeks vacation, 4 months maternity leave, however much sick leave is deemed appropriate, that can be done at the legal level. You do not need unions to exist to do that!

chobeat 7y ago
Unions were always the way to gain those rights: weekends, 8hours a day, abolition of child labour, they were all fights won by unions. Now USA have weak business unions and no more rights are gained. Same is happening is happening in Europe where neoliberal governments are disgregating the rights won by unions in the last 2 centuries. It's not moving the goal post: unions are about improving the conditions for workers and when they are powerful enough, they can demand the State to crystallize their rights in law so that the battles don't have to be done over and over in each factory and office. That's the endgame, the rest is just preparatory.
- unapologetic 7y ago
  More wrongthink. How unfortunate.
unapologetic 7y ago
> that can be done at the legal level. You do not need unions to exist to do that! Unions allow workers to wield political power collectively as well. Union endorsements are valuable, union money, union member donations. Instead of having billionaires like Bezos or the Koch brothers buying up media and giving millions to candidates to push their agenda, ordinary people can be heard. Why do you think so many old school union people were outright socialists?
- grimjack00 7y ago
  > ordinary people can be heard You mean _unions_ can be heard; the ordinary people who make up the unions may not agree with the stance of the union.
- uerobert 7y ago
  > Union endorsements are valuable, union money, union member donations. This is why a lot of people oppose unions. You could be contributing for causes you actively oppose, and on top of that against your will.