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It's always interesting that, when men express their lived experiences, people will say that they're stupid and crazy. Society as a whole polices men's emotion

It's always interesting that, when men express their lived experiences, people will say that they're stupid and crazy. Society as a whole polices men's emotional expression. But some feminists are extraordinarily unwilling to recognize that women are at the very least coequal perpetrators of this. Hell, some (and apparently you) are unwilling to concede that women play any role at all in this. In my lived experience, my mother and female family members were much more critical of me expressing emotion than my father and male family members. Moreover, female partners police my emotional expression a lot more than male friends (or partners) do. But, go for it, keep on denying women have any agency at all in gender politics and saying it's all men's fault.

krapp 7y ago
>But some self-proclaimed feminists are extraordinarily unwilling to recognize that women are at the very least coequal perpetrators of this. >Hell, they (and apparently you) are unwilling to concede that women play any role at all in this. The point of my original comment was literally that women bear some responsibility for reinforcing the harmful stereotypes of male culture. I merely suggested that women weren't entirely to blame, rather that both men and women were complicit in perpetuating toxic masculinity. That attempted nuance has apparently gotten lost because I made the mistake of trying to engage with one of HN's trigger phrases and now this thread is locked into a fetal position of incel rage and defensiveness. Serves me right, I guess.
- scarmig 7y ago
  > The point of my original comment was literally that women bear some responsibility for reinforcing the harmful stereotypes of male culture Unfortunately, that doesn't really jive with this: > Men aren't puppets, they have agency, they are responsible (really, far more responsible) Women have agency. Many women do bad things, including enforcing toxic gender norms. It probably makes as much sense to call that "toxic femininity" instead of "toxic masculinity" when women do it, but you do you. Neither phrase is useful, because they focus on putting blame on one gender or another when toxic gender norms are really a collaborative effort.

krapp 7y ago

>But some self-proclaimed feminists are extraordinarily unwilling to recognize that women are at the very least coequal perpetrators of this. >Hell, they (and apparently you) are unwilling to concede that women play any role at all in this. The point of my original comment was literally that women bear some responsibility for reinforcing the harmful stereotypes of male culture. I merely suggested that women weren't entirely to blame, rather that both men and women were complicit in perpetuating toxic masculinity. That attempted nuance has apparently gotten lost because I made the mistake of trying to engage with one of HN's trigger phrases and now this thread is locked into a fetal position of incel rage and defensiveness. Serves me right, I guess.

scarmig 7y ago
> The point of my original comment was literally that women bear some responsibility for reinforcing the harmful stereotypes of male culture Unfortunately, that doesn't really jive with this: > Men aren't puppets, they have agency, they are responsible (really, far more responsible) Women have agency. Many women do bad things, including enforcing toxic gender norms. It probably makes as much sense to call that "toxic femininity" instead of "toxic masculinity" when women do it, but you do you. Neither phrase is useful, because they focus on putting blame on one gender or another when toxic gender norms are really a collaborative effort.