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The way this reads, it sounds like Nubank isn't going to keep supporting these open source projects by letting their employees spend company time on them... I h

by andjd 7y ago

The way this reads, it sounds like Nubank isn't going to keep supporting these open source projects by letting their employees spend company time on them... I hope that doesn't starve elixir of resources.

elcritch 7y ago
José explicitly addresses that concern. Of the core Elixir team, only José works at Plataformtech. Also it’s stated that the language/syntax part of Elixir is largely "done", which imho is awesome.
- inferiorhuman 7y ago
  Also it’s stated that the language/syntax part of Elixir is largely "done", which imho is awesome. Yeah and that leaves huge chunks like tooling that aren't done or mature. When I walked away from Elixir and Phoenix it was right around when bitwalker abandoned distillery leaving the deployment story unsupported. Blech.
  - elcritch 7y ago
    > Yeah and that leaves huge chunks like tooling that aren't done or mature. That's why I said the syntax is largely done. They're still actively working on tooling as this release shows. The compiler has some useful improvements. IMHO, a stable syntax leaves more focus on improving the tooling as in this release. It seems to work well for Clojure as well. > When I walked away from Elixir and Phoenix it was right around when bitwalker abandoned distillery leaving the deployment story unsupported. Blech. Too bad to hear. Luckily, bitwalker's work has largely been integrated into Elixir in v1.9. So now it will be supported going forward by the core team which makes more sense than one developer supporting a core part of Elixir's tooling. Recently the Erlang Ecosystem Foundation [EEF](https://erlef.org https://erlef.org) was founded and supported by a several companies and the community to ensure the Erlang (including Elixir) ecosystem is maintained.
    - inferiorhuman 7y ago
      That's why I said the syntax is largely done. They're still actively working on tooling as this release shows. The compiler has some useful improvements. IMHO, a stable syntax leaves more focus on improving the tooling as in this release. It seems to work well for Clojure as well. That pretty well sums up why I rather like Clojure and Rust but not Elixir: tooling is an afterthought, at best, with Elixir. Luckily, bitwalker's work has largely been integrated into Elixir in v1.9. That's disappointing to hear. Distillery was a cobbled together mess of bash (not even POSIX!) scripts that should've been put out to pasture ages ago. Elixir has three major problems from my POV: developer tooling is an afterthought, portability is an afterthought, and build artifacts / deployments are unwieldy. Distillery embodies all three and it's a shame that the path forward is simply to throw more bodies at a broken solution. Recently the Erlang Ecosystem Foundation [EEF](https://erlef.org https://erlef.org) was founded and supported by a several companies and the community to ensure the Erlang (including Elixir) ecosystem is maintained. Unfortunately the status quo is not great – rather than doubling down on poorly thought out solutions it would be nice to see actual improvement. I spent enough time dissecting distillery in an attempt to get deployments to work to make my eyes bleed. Contrast that with rust where the developer experience is front and center. Even as the syntax evolves over time it remains a pleasure to use. rls is flaky but that's such a minor problem in comparison.

by andjd 7y ago

elcritch 7y ago

José explicitly addresses that concern. Of the core Elixir team, only José works at Plataformtech. Also it’s stated that the language/syntax part of Elixir is largely "done", which imho is awesome.

inferiorhuman 7y ago
Also it’s stated that the language/syntax part of Elixir is largely "done", which imho is awesome. Yeah and that leaves huge chunks like tooling that aren't done or mature. When I walked away from Elixir and Phoenix it was right around when bitwalker abandoned distillery leaving the deployment story unsupported. Blech.
- elcritch 7y ago
  > Yeah and that leaves huge chunks like tooling that aren't done or mature. That's why I said the syntax is largely done. They're still actively working on tooling as this release shows. The compiler has some useful improvements. IMHO, a stable syntax leaves more focus on improving the tooling as in this release. It seems to work well for Clojure as well. > When I walked away from Elixir and Phoenix it was right around when bitwalker abandoned distillery leaving the deployment story unsupported. Blech. Too bad to hear. Luckily, bitwalker's work has largely been integrated into Elixir in v1.9. So now it will be supported going forward by the core team which makes more sense than one developer supporting a core part of Elixir's tooling. Recently the Erlang Ecosystem Foundation [EEF](https://erlef.org https://erlef.org) was founded and supported by a several companies and the community to ensure the Erlang (including Elixir) ecosystem is maintained.
  - inferiorhuman 7y ago
    That's why I said the syntax is largely done. They're still actively working on tooling as this release shows. The compiler has some useful improvements. IMHO, a stable syntax leaves more focus on improving the tooling as in this release. It seems to work well for Clojure as well. That pretty well sums up why I rather like Clojure and Rust but not Elixir: tooling is an afterthought, at best, with Elixir. Luckily, bitwalker's work has largely been integrated into Elixir in v1.9. That's disappointing to hear. Distillery was a cobbled together mess of bash (not even POSIX!) scripts that should've been put out to pasture ages ago. Elixir has three major problems from my POV: developer tooling is an afterthought, portability is an afterthought, and build artifacts / deployments are unwieldy. Distillery embodies all three and it's a shame that the path forward is simply to throw more bodies at a broken solution. Recently the Erlang Ecosystem Foundation [EEF](https://erlef.org https://erlef.org) was founded and supported by a several companies and the community to ensure the Erlang (including Elixir) ecosystem is maintained. Unfortunately the status quo is not great – rather than doubling down on poorly thought out solutions it would be nice to see actual improvement. I spent enough time dissecting distillery in an attempt to get deployments to work to make my eyes bleed. Contrast that with rust where the developer experience is front and center. Even as the syntax evolves over time it remains a pleasure to use. rls is flaky but that's such a minor problem in comparison.