3 ms·

> "if we tell good people about risks, then bad people will know about them. If we keep them secret from good people, then bad people won't find out about them"

by gist 7y ago

> "if we tell good people about risks, then bad people will know about them. If we keep them secret from good people, then bad people won't find out about them". Or, "if we don't make a list of open doors, then bad people can't find which doors are open". You are not recognizing the nuance which is typically the case with people who supports practically any and all disclosure and thinks it's good plain and simple. With almost no downside at all (not the case). In particular this: "then bad people won't find out about them" My point is that disclosure makes it simpler for more bad people to find and learn and inflict damage damage. Unclear to me how you could think that isn't what has and is happening. If someone say publishing how to create a card skimmer at a gas station then more people (who are bad actors) will then have what they need to give it a try. If not there will be people who have figured it out and people who will put the effort into figuring it out but you must realize vastly less will do that, right? The disclosure removes a great deal of friction. The amount of effort and friction and the amount of 'bad people' that can be actors is many magnitudes larger (I would argue) as a result of disclosure.

jodrellblank 7y ago
What I think you're missing is that the disclosure could come from a bad person who doesn't care about any of your arguments. It's like I'm saying "banks should invest in vaults to protect against theft" and you're saying "that costs money and disruption of building work, what if you just don't talk about where the money is kept". I agree that if people didn't steal the money, that would be nice. But most of the people who are talking about where banks keep money with a view to stealing it, aren't going to shut up in order to keep the money safe, because they don't care about keeping the money safe. So if us bank customers stop talking about it, a) that doesn't keep it quiet, and b) our money gets stolen. It would be a nice world if we could tell companies about flaws and they fixed them, and nothing went public, but instead we tell companies with "responsible disclosure" and they ignore it, don't spend any effort on it, act incompetently leaving it with first line support people who don't understand it and have no path to escalate it, have no security contacts available for reports, cover it up or deny it or try to silence it with NDA style agreements, prioritise shareholder profit or public image over it, and generally behave irresponsibly in all possible ways that avoid them having to deal with it, with very few companies excepted. In light of that, public disclosure with all its risks, actually does kick companies into taking action, and closing risk vectors for good. Like companies who say "we put customers first!" but it takes a complaining public Twitter thread for them to even respond at all. Telling people to not take it to Twitter ignores the fact that there's no other way which seems to actually work. Give an alternative which also gets problems fixed, and I'll be much more in favour of it.

by gist 7y ago

jodrellblank 7y ago

What I think you're missing is that the disclosure could come from a bad person who doesn't care about any of your arguments. It's like I'm saying "banks should invest in vaults to protect against theft" and you're saying "that costs money and disruption of building work, what if you just don't talk about where the money is kept". I agree that if people didn't steal the money, that would be nice. But most of the people who are talking about where banks keep money with a view to stealing it, aren't going to shut up in order to keep the money safe, because they don't care about keeping the money safe. So if us bank customers stop talking about it, a) that doesn't keep it quiet, and b) our money gets stolen. It would be a nice world if we could tell companies about flaws and they fixed them, and nothing went public, but instead we tell companies with "responsible disclosure" and they ignore it, don't spend any effort on it, act incompetently leaving it with first line support people who don't understand it and have no path to escalate it, have no security contacts available for reports, cover it up or deny it or try to silence it with NDA style agreements, prioritise shareholder profit or public image over it, and generally behave irresponsibly in all possible ways that avoid them having to deal with it, with very few companies excepted. In light of that, public disclosure with all its risks, actually does kick companies into taking action, and closing risk vectors for good. Like companies who say "we put customers first!" but it takes a complaining public Twitter thread for them to even respond at all. Telling people to not take it to Twitter ignores the fact that there's no other way which seems to actually work. Give an alternative which also gets problems fixed, and I'll be much more in favour of it.