4 ms·

Is this actually true, or just tech hubris? It took Tesla 5 years to essentially just swap the powertrain + rebadge a Lotus Elise, another 5 and millions in in

by kec 7y ago

Is this actually true, or just tech hubris? It took Tesla 5 years to essentially just swap the powertrain + rebadge a Lotus Elise, another 5 and millions in investment before their first in house design.

willio58 7y ago
That was a very different time. Electric car engineering is somewhat fleshed out by this point, back then it wasn’t.
- kec 7y ago
  I don’t think automotive or manufacturing engineering have changed all that much in the last 10 years compared to the previous 100.... ICE manufacturers make a platform and use it for years, sometimes decades, with only relatively minor tweaks. The hard part as I understand it is literally everything else about manufacture, something which will be broadly shared with EVs.
  - jiofih 7y ago
    The hard part is precisely that they want to reuse that platform, and just replace the engine with a battery and motors. Designing an electric vehicle from scratch today is infinitely easier than an ICE, both in complexity, skills required, number of parts and manufacturing.
    - kec 7y ago
      I would interpret that data precisely the opposite: designing and manufacturing a new car is hard, swapping out the power plant is much easier. Thousands of Ford and Toyota engineers are doing something and it isn't redesigning an ICE engine every year.
      - jiofih 7y ago
        The comment was about the ease of making electric cars, which is only happening on the last decade and plenty of companies are popping up. Yes, those engineers are busy dealing with the complexity I just mentioned.
aphextron 7y ago
>It took Tesla 5 years to essentially just swap the powertrain + rebadge a Lotus Elise, another 5 and millions in investment before their first in house design. 15 years ago, sure. But EVs are mature tech at this point. Nissan has been pumping them out at volume for nearly a decade now. Every other manufacturer now has at least one or two models in development or coming to market. The only differentiating factor is the ability to produce high quality batteries in massive volume. This is why Nissan was so successful with the Leaf. They had their own battery production facilities in place to provide the volume needed. So far Tesla has been the only other manufacturer with a similar capability. It's also why the Europeans are so far behind the Japanese, Koreans, and the US in EV sales. None of them have their own battery production capacity, and are forced to buy from Panasonic or LG Chem.
- Hamuko 7y ago
  >Nissan has been pumping them out at volume for nearly a decade now. Nissan is a automobile company 80 years of history. That is hardly "anyone".
  - aphextron 7y ago
    >Nissan is a automobile company 80 years of history. That is hardly "anyone". My point is that it's not rocket science or cutting edge tech. The processes are well known and defined, it's just a matter of investing the capital and putting them in place.
- basch 7y ago
  >The only differentiating factor is the ability to produce high quality batteries in massive volume. Software. The differentiating factor is software. Batteries will soon commoditize. What will make cars unique is how effortless they are to interface with, and things like suspension tweaks in over the air updates. Much like the transition from N64 cartridges to DLC, they dont need to sell a finished product any longer, youre buying into an update stream. Buy from a vendor you trust to keep iterating in a way you like (increased features or increased stability.)

by kec 7y ago

willio58 7y ago

That was a very different time. Electric car engineering is somewhat fleshed out by this point, back then it wasn’t.

kec 7y ago
I don’t think automotive or manufacturing engineering have changed all that much in the last 10 years compared to the previous 100.... ICE manufacturers make a platform and use it for years, sometimes decades, with only relatively minor tweaks. The hard part as I understand it is literally everything else about manufacture, something which will be broadly shared with EVs.
- jiofih 7y ago
  The hard part is precisely that they want to reuse that platform, and just replace the engine with a battery and motors. Designing an electric vehicle from scratch today is infinitely easier than an ICE, both in complexity, skills required, number of parts and manufacturing.
  - kec 7y ago
    I would interpret that data precisely the opposite: designing and manufacturing a new car is hard, swapping out the power plant is much easier. Thousands of Ford and Toyota engineers are doing something and it isn't redesigning an ICE engine every year.
    - jiofih 7y ago
      The comment was about the ease of making electric cars, which is only happening on the last decade and plenty of companies are popping up. Yes, those engineers are busy dealing with the complexity I just mentioned.

aphextron 7y ago

>It took Tesla 5 years to essentially just swap the powertrain + rebadge a Lotus Elise, another 5 and millions in investment before their first in house design. 15 years ago, sure. But EVs are mature tech at this point. Nissan has been pumping them out at volume for nearly a decade now. Every other manufacturer now has at least one or two models in development or coming to market. The only differentiating factor is the ability to produce high quality batteries in massive volume. This is why Nissan was so successful with the Leaf. They had their own battery production facilities in place to provide the volume needed. So far Tesla has been the only other manufacturer with a similar capability. It's also why the Europeans are so far behind the Japanese, Koreans, and the US in EV sales. None of them have their own battery production capacity, and are forced to buy from Panasonic or LG Chem.

Hamuko 7y ago
>Nissan has been pumping them out at volume for nearly a decade now. Nissan is a automobile company 80 years of history. That is hardly "anyone".
- aphextron 7y ago
  >Nissan is a automobile company 80 years of history. That is hardly "anyone". My point is that it's not rocket science or cutting edge tech. The processes are well known and defined, it's just a matter of investing the capital and putting them in place.
basch 7y ago
>The only differentiating factor is the ability to produce high quality batteries in massive volume. Software. The differentiating factor is software. Batteries will soon commoditize. What will make cars unique is how effortless they are to interface with, and things like suspension tweaks in over the air updates. Much like the transition from N64 cartridges to DLC, they dont need to sell a finished product any longer, youre buying into an update stream. Buy from a vendor you trust to keep iterating in a way you like (increased features or increased stability.)