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Software engineers aren't the only one that work in that industry. On the dev-side there's a couple routes out, however on the design and art side adjacent indu

Software engineers aren't the only one that work in that industry. On the dev-side there's a couple routes out, however on the design and art side adjacent industries are even worse meat-grinders or not an option.

throwaway17_17 7y ago
But there in lies the problem. Most of the discussion opposed to union come from the actual software engineering aspect, but the unionization proposals are attempting to cover the multitude of sub-professions that compromise game development. It is often glossed over that actual engineers have vastly different options, priorities, and working conditions than these other workers. Carmack’s options should be seen as addressing engineering conditions, I would assume. The negative articles seem to address animators, level layout designers and, most particularly, QA employees. These roles have a wildly different work trajectory than an exiting software engineer. I’m all for these workers finding some leverage, but I think engineers linking there prospective and fate to people in such a disparate place.
- meheleventyone 7y ago
  The concept is called solidarity. Workers with more leverage should have the backs of those with less rather than seeing them as an anchor.
  - throwaway17_17 7y ago
    I can understand the general philosophic argument for ‘worker’ solidarity, but in practice that is not how unions work. Union represent professions and then those unions often pool resource under a larger labor umbrella. It is why the the Screen Actors Guild is separate from Cinamatographer Guild, Screenwriters Guild, production laborers union, etc in the motion picture industry. Further it’s why plumbers, carpenters, electricians, etc have separate unions in the construction field. If software engineers feel they need the leverage of organized labor that is a decision these developers can make and then act on, but that is very different than suborning the needs a very particular profession to the needs and desires of complete separate groups. As a note, the solidarity in these situations tend to come as reciprocal strike agreements, i.e. the SAG not working during the Screenwriters Guild strike in the last decade (I think it was post 2010 anyway)
    - meheleventyone 7y ago
      How broad the accepted membership is entirely depends on the union. There is no objective reason to always segment by profession. In my opinion having worked in the games industry for over fifteen years software engineers are treated very similarly to other disciplines although paid better and it would make a lot more sense to work together with other disciplines than trying to each form a union separately. As you say unions often have reciprocal agreements or are even part of larger umbrella organizations for example the TUC in the UK.

throwaway17_17 7y ago

But there in lies the problem. Most of the discussion opposed to union come from the actual software engineering aspect, but the unionization proposals are attempting to cover the multitude of sub-professions that compromise game development. It is often glossed over that actual engineers have vastly different options, priorities, and working conditions than these other workers. Carmack’s options should be seen as addressing engineering conditions, I would assume. The negative articles seem to address animators, level layout designers and, most particularly, QA employees. These roles have a wildly different work trajectory than an exiting software engineer. I’m all for these workers finding some leverage, but I think engineers linking there prospective and fate to people in such a disparate place.

meheleventyone 7y ago
The concept is called solidarity. Workers with more leverage should have the backs of those with less rather than seeing them as an anchor.
- throwaway17_17 7y ago
  I can understand the general philosophic argument for ‘worker’ solidarity, but in practice that is not how unions work. Union represent professions and then those unions often pool resource under a larger labor umbrella. It is why the the Screen Actors Guild is separate from Cinamatographer Guild, Screenwriters Guild, production laborers union, etc in the motion picture industry. Further it’s why plumbers, carpenters, electricians, etc have separate unions in the construction field. If software engineers feel they need the leverage of organized labor that is a decision these developers can make and then act on, but that is very different than suborning the needs a very particular profession to the needs and desires of complete separate groups. As a note, the solidarity in these situations tend to come as reciprocal strike agreements, i.e. the SAG not working during the Screenwriters Guild strike in the last decade (I think it was post 2010 anyway)
  - meheleventyone 7y ago
    How broad the accepted membership is entirely depends on the union. There is no objective reason to always segment by profession. In my opinion having worked in the games industry for over fifteen years software engineers are treated very similarly to other disciplines although paid better and it would make a lot more sense to work together with other disciplines than trying to each form a union separately. As you say unions often have reciprocal agreements or are even part of larger umbrella organizations for example the TUC in the UK.